1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,200
 If you're just joining us on Jupiter Tube, one of the things that's really excited about today's

2
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:14,080
 stream is we are also concurrently running a test podcasting 2.0 compliant feed for the show.

3
00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,720
 This is something we've wanted to do for a long time with office hours.

4
00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:22,800
 And if you go to the podcast index or you look in podverse for Jupiter test signal,

5
00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:30,640
 you'll see that there is a essentially really kind of crappy small office hours feed that I'm

6
00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:35,120
 going to use for just a few weeks while we test things out. And one of the things we're testing

7
00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:44,080
 today is the live item tag lit, which enables the ability for us to stream inside podcasting 2.0

8
00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:50,560
 apps. And you can even, this is opt in, but you can even opt in to turning on notifications.

9
00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,640
 So you get a push notification when one of our shows goes live. Now, this is actually pretty

10
00:00:54,640 --> 00:01:00,160
 relevant because we're doing something ridiculous and we're recording Linux unplugged on a Tuesday

11
00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:06,720
 this week. We always do it on Sunday at noon Pacific 3pm Eastern. You can, you know, you can

12
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:11,440
 almost make your calendar around it. However, scheduling conflicts come up sometimes. And so

13
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:16,720
 this week we're doing it Tuesday. But we didn't even decide when we were recording until like

14
00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:21,760
 yesterday afternoon, we couldn't give people a heads up that we were changing the scheduling date.

15
00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:27,920
 But with this system, if people are subscribed to our shows in a podcasting 2.0 app that supports

16
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,720
 the lit tag, you'll just see it in your podcast app list. So when you're looking at your list of

17
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:39,280
 podcasts in your podcast player, like say podverse, you'll see your favorite shows. And next to Linux

18
00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,920
 unplugged or office hours or whatever show it might be, there'll be a little live batch and you can

19
00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:50,480
 tap that. And it will tune into the stream. And you can play it live. And it's fantastic because

20
00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,960
 it also lets you embed the chat room and it lets you include alternative stream enclosures. So

21
00:01:54,960 --> 00:02:00,320
 maybe for some reason, your app won't play the audio stream, we can provide the peer tube link

22
00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:07,200
 as an alternative link enclosure. And people could just tap that really powerful stuff. The other

23
00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,480
 thing that's really nice is all of the items that would normally be in our RSS feed are available

24
00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:18,480
 for this live stream. So we can put production credits, we can give everybody a credit in the

25
00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,560
 show like myself and Brent and Drew and Wes or whoever else is involved with the production.

26
00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,520
 We can have the value tag in there. So you can boost the show live, it'll little boost button

27
00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,600
 will show up on the live stream, which is a lot of fun. And of course, there's things that are

28
00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:38,320
 going to be like only published features like transcripts that require processing or chapters

29
00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,600
 because you have to figure out what the chapters are after the fact and put the time markers in

30
00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:47,040
 there but thought also be in there once the show is published. Very excited about. So that's what

31
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:53,840
 we're talking about today. Very excited. What is the name of that link again? So you can

32
00:02:53,840 --> 00:03:00,640
 in Podverse. You can just search for Jupiter test signal in Podverse. Jupiter test signal. Thank you.

33
00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:07,440
 Thanks, Steven. Steven's got to run to a meeting, but he's going to keep it open in the window to

34
00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:12,560
 help seed over on Jupiter too. Really exciting time and we'll have to go through all the technology

35
00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,360
 this is using. Brent, you can ask me a little bit about how it notifies the apps and all that.

36
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,840
 We got to get to all that because I could talk about it for hours. So. Office hours?

37
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:27,920
 Are you ready to record? Yes, I could be. With a zinger like that, we should have been already.

38
00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:36,960
 Am I right? No. Right. Yes. Yes. Yes. We got some. Okay, that works. Yeah, good.

39
00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:46,080
 Yeah. I get that live, that red life thing and I can listen to it live. Okay. That's so great.

40
00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:52,240
 And unfunded just boosted in testing it right now. I love the new audio on the podcast app.

41
00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:57,920
 Boom! Our first live boost right there. Showing tag. Thank you, unfunded, which is ironic since

42
00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:03,360
 you just sent us some baby ducks. That's pretty funny. See what you did there. Brent,

43
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,480
 are you ready? I am. I even saved my project and everything.

44
00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:14,560
 What a good boy. All right. You know, that means your files are going to be properly named and I

45
00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:20,320
 like that. I don't really get impact. It doesn't impact my life, but I like sitting over here knowing

46
00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,240
 that the files being written to your hard driver are properly named. It just gives me a little bit

47
00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:32,560
 of peace inside. Me too. Yeah, me too. You never know. All right. Three, two, one, record.

48
00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:40,960
 Recording. And let's do our four count. Stotting now. Mumbler room. Feel free to jump in.

49
00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:50,480
 One, two, three, four. Four. I wonder if the four count is still needed, right? Because I'm

50
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,480
 sure everybody drifts anyways. Curious. All right. And a little room cap too to get that.

51
00:04:54,480 --> 00:05:01,920
 That's how you do it right there. Thank you, everybody.

52
00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:17,280
 All right. That new mouth organ. It's got a, it's got depth.

53
00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:23,200
 You got depth. It's office hours with me, Chris.

54
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:32,560
 Oh, and Brent's here too. Good morning, Brent. Hey there. Good morning. Good day. Here is always.

55
00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:40,080
 Warm. Yes. Yes. You good. Oh, I'm on fire. I'm on fire. The good kind of fire or the bad kind of

56
00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:49,200
 fire? Oh, the good kind. The good kind. You know, I kind of lulled myself into an extremely productive

57
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:54,800
 stretch and this episode is going to be the living proof of that productive stretch. You know what I

58
00:05:54,800 --> 00:06:03,440
 mean? I was like resistant, hesitant, but then I got like a 6 p.m. second wind and I just went

59
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:09,040
 all in, you know? So very excited to tell you all about that. We're testing some really cool things

60
00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:14,240
 in today's episode. And of course we are joined by the old trusty virtual lug. Hello, Mumble Room.

61
00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:20,400
 Time appropriate greetings. Hello, Chris. Hello, everyone. Hello, everybody. Hello,

62
00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:25,840
 up there and the quiet listening too. So I think we should start, Brently, with something that

63
00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:35,040
 is just worth following up on from a couple of weeks ago. A couple of weeks ago, our OBS machine

64
00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,880
 was in a real bad state when we started recording the show, as you probably recall.

65
00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:47,040
 Well, exactly two weeks ago on this very show. Yes. Yes. It was not a good way and we decided to

66
00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:52,560
 do the right thing and just ignore it and proceed forward with the show, which ultimately proved

67
00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:58,800
 to be the correct thing to do. That was the correct scenario. And then it was really fortunate because

68
00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,840
 Office Hours was the last live production for that week. Everything else being recorded was off air

69
00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:10,720
 and published offline. So this machine was able to sit until Wes and I could get together on Saturday

70
00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:17,680
 and begin to do a transition to the Thalia, realizing around Thursday,

71
00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,960
 oh, I'm going to need to power that thing up one more time to back stuff up.

72
00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:28,720
 And so like, I wasn't so sure, right? But I took it out of the studio and I brought it up to my

73
00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:33,200
 office upstairs and I hooked it all up and took me forever to find a monitor that was compatible

74
00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:38,080
 with it because for whatever reason, the only port that lights up in the Nvidia card in that OBS

75
00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:44,480
 machine is the DVI port. Things got like four display ports and an HDMI. None of them work.

76
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:50,160
 DVI though, that works. Yeah. So I'm sitting there like an idiot, you know, walking around the studio,

77
00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,880
 probably for 25, 30 minutes trying to find a monitor that's got a DVI port that I can steal.

78
00:07:54,880 --> 00:08:01,040
 Inevitably had to steal it from my node. From my, you know, my rule on that too. I don't touch the

79
00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:07,360
 node. Oh, Chris. I know. But I had to get the OBS machine transitioned. It was for the audience,

80
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:13,360
 Brent. It was for the people. So we got the files backed up to NextCloud, got the machine swapped

81
00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:19,520
 over. We talked about that in Linux Unplugged. It went really, really well. And this is the first

82
00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:25,600
 office hours where we're actually streaming using the new setup. And like tons of stuff doesn't work.

83
00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:31,360
 Like your camera keeps freezing up. The audio is a little off, probably not totally dialed in.

84
00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:36,720
 The whole setup is just really rough. It's got a lot of potential. And it's going to,

85
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:41,280
 it's going to give us five years of runway. I have no doubt about it, at least. But this is

86
00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:46,800
 the first office hours we've done on the system. And because I also did, I didn't think about it

87
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:52,320
 because it's been two weeks. I didn't think about it. So last night, I also came up with a brand

88
00:08:52,320 --> 00:09:00,240
 new strung together podcasting 2.0 compliant test feed for the show called the Jupiter test signal.

89
00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:08,000
 It's beautiful Brent. And it supports the live item tag. And we are live using podcasting 2.0's

90
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:13,520
 live item tag right now as we do this. But all of that infrastructure is brand new,

91
00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:18,240
 all brand new infrastructure. And our peer tube's a little wobbly for some reason. So

92
00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:24,160
 there's like, you got running with scissors, and then you have running with flaming chainsaws.

93
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,800
 And that's what we're doing today. Because the very machines we use to make the show

94
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:33,520
 are shaky and have literally never been tested on this show before with these profiles,

95
00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,680
 our peer tube instances shaky, which is the API we use to go live. And then the whole

96
00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:44,640
 other element of a brand new test feed that I've never made before, that's probably filled with

97
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:50,800
 errors that I'm putting out there live for people to use. So I think it's running with flaming chainsaws

98
00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:57,600
 this week Brent. I am strangely okay with that. It feels like progress, even though it might be

99
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:02,160
 a little messy at first. Yeah, we're getting there, aren't we? We're getting there. We'll see.

100
00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,000
 Yeah, yeah, we will see. We'll see if we make it through the episode, I suppose.

101
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:12,240
 I, so to do this, to create this Jupyter test signal, which you can go search for on the podcast

102
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:17,600
 index, I decided to give this application, this web app called sovereign feeds ago.

103
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:26,000
 And sovereign feeds is a tool that lets you create podcasting 2.0 shows. And it has support in here

104
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:32,480
 for everything like the value block, the live feed, transcripts, all of that. And when you're

105
00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:43,120
 done filling out its UI, it gives you an XML file that is an RSS feed. Then you put that XML file

106
00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:50,400
 up on somewhere like object storage that you can get an HTTP URL for. Then you give it back to sovereign

107
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:55,440
 feeds. You give that new URL to sovereign feeds and you give that URL to the podcast index, etc.

108
00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:00,320
 And it will send out a pod ping that tells all the apps, Hey, this XML file has been updated. So

109
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:07,040
 instead of the podcast apps, checking your XML file, which is your RSS feed, every 15 minutes,

110
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:12,560
 every hour, every 24 hours, you know, whatever it is that they might be doing, instead of the podcast

111
00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:18,720
 apps doing it themselves manually, arbitrarily, individually. Now they get a pod ping. And pod

112
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:23,920
 ping says this specific XML file that you subscribe to has been updated time to go check it.

113
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:30,320
 Let's just use pod versus an example. So pod verse goes out now and checks that XML file reads the

114
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:38,800
 XML file and sees I have these live tag items in here lit items in here. It tells me this is the

115
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,720
 name of the stream. This is where it's at. This is the time it's expected to go live. This is how

116
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:47,600
 long it's expected to last. This is the alternative link if perhaps you can't play the audio for some

117
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:55,040
 reason. Here's some details. It's all just in there as plain old XML. But the podcasting two

118
00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:59,040
 dot Oh standard makes this something that all the app developers know how to read and how it should

119
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,120
 be formatted. And it's been turned into this entire thing. Now it's really fantastic, Brent.

120
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:11,280
 And it works. It's actually working. It's it's working, which is amazing. You got to be happy

121
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,800
 about that. I can tell just by your energy that you're kind of thrilled that it's working.

122
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,760
 Delighted. I've wanted to mess with this for at least half a year.

123
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:24,720
 Now, I do have some questions because it sounds like this is a pretty manual process at this

124
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:29,440
 point. Do you see that kind of I guess it's a new concept, but do you see that changing?

125
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:34,080
 Do you feel happy about the progression of this technology so far?

126
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,880
 Oh boy. Is it manual right now?

127
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:47,680
 Um, you know, God, God bless him. But so sovereign feeds does have some rough edges.

128
00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:51,680
 Like I've made some mistakes where I've basically had to just destroy everything I've created

129
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:57,600
 and then redo everything in the right order again to resolve. So you go to sovereign feeds. If you

130
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:03,200
 go to it in a in a web browser for the first time, it's empty. And then you go search for

131
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,800
 your existing RSS feed that's already been submitted to the podcast index. So it's a bit of a chicken

132
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,720
 of the egg thing here. You can also create one, then submit it to the podcast index. But yeah,

133
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,120
 you figure that out, you get your podcast imported.

134
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:23,360
 Then it's really a matter of going through and filling out all the individual little fields,

135
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,680
 getting all of that figured out. Then you generate the XML file and you download it.

136
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:33,680
 Then you upload that XML file to object storage, then you flip it readable by the world on the

137
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:38,800
 object storage because by default it's probably going to be private. Then assuming that the podcast

138
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:43,200
 index already knows where this XML file lives and other apps already know where it is, then you go

139
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:47,440
 back to sovereign feeds and you tell it to issue a pod ping. It tells pod ping to tell all the apps

140
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:53,680
 to go check the file, then they import the file. And all of that is very manual and requires a lot

141
00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:58,640
 of me like download file, move file, set file, upload file, change thing, rename thing, right?

142
00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,800
 It's like the word press days. Yeah, it's like 15 steps to go live. But

143
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:08,160
 that's because right now, we're intentionally using sovereign feeds to generate this file for us,

144
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,400
 so we can get an idea of what this file should look like. Because it's possible to create

145
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:18,080
 an RSS file just by going by the raw spec. And we just put what the spec says should be in there.

146
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:22,640
 But when you look at the files that sovereign feeds generates, there's a lot of extra stuff in

147
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,640
 there, like there's some iTunes stuff in there, the lot of podcast players have just accepted as a

148
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,880
 standard. There's a lot of little extra details in there that we might not have been aware of.

149
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:35,280
 And you got to assume sovereign feeds has probably figured out some of these edge cases

150
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:41,440
 and made accommodations for that. And that's why I wanted to try their tooling. Because in my mind,

151
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:47,920
 they're building an app that sole purpose is adopting and integrating podcasting to the features.

152
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:54,080
 So I wanted to see what kind of XML they created. And then from that, internally, I imagine we can

153
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:59,600
 create a lot of primitives that will build these basic feeds. And what we've determined is that

154
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:04,400
 we can add our own Jupyter namespace addition to the podcasting two dot oh namespaces,

155
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:09,840
 which can be stuff that is specific to generate items on our website and things like that. So

156
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:18,080
 it should be possible for us to generate a true source of truth for both our podcasts in the apps,

157
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:24,240
 in the index, and for our entire website. Because we can add additional namespace items that are

158
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:28,720
 specific to just us. And the podcast apps, with probably some exceptions, will just

159
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:34,400
 ignore those namespace items that it doesn't care about. And that gives us the ability to create

160
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:39,920
 essentially an RSS file that we could rebuild the website from or you could rebuild all of our entries

161
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:44,880
 in a podcast app from because that RSS file is the source of truth. So the step I'm going through

162
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:49,760
 right now is learning what should be in that file, what it needs to look like, how the value tags

163
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:54,240
 work when you want something that's declarative for the entire show. And then you want specific

164
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:59,280
 deviations just for the individual episode. What does that look like figuring all that out right

165
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:07,280
 now? Sounds like declarative podcasting. Yeah, I love the idea that this source of truth really

166
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:12,800
 for us once we get there will just kind of be so simple and mutable. Like we can change it

167
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:17,680
 if we want to add some new features, you know, to the back catalog and everything pretty easily.

168
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:23,440
 That seems really exciting from the website point of view at least. But I would imagine

169
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,920
 in a bunch of other places too. Yeah, I would encourage somebody listening

170
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:34,080
 to try out the new test feed, the Jupiter signal. What is it? No, hold on, let me get it right.

171
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:39,760
 Jupiter test signal. Yeah. I would encourage folks to try out the Jupiter test signal and go to the

172
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:45,840
 podcast index or you can find it in Podverse or Fountain or whatever. Don't delete the main office

173
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:51,040
 hours feed because we're not using this feed forever. But try it out for the published episode.

174
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,280
 I'm not sure if I'll put the actual published episode in there or which means it'll come out

175
00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,840
 after the actual episode comes out. Or if I'll put like the live feed in there, but I want to put

176
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,680
 something in there just so you guys can see all the different features like you could see the way

177
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,280
 like the credits work for the different cast people quote unquote, you could see the

178
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,840
 the transcription if I get that working, which we'll talk about in a moment, all of that. So

179
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:17,360
 the Jupiter test signal will be out for a while to be a feed that I maintain as a testing ground

180
00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:21,360
 as a skunk works for these things that will integrate into our own tooling. And I'd like to

181
00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:25,120
 get your feedback. I'd like to see what you think we're right now as we go right now. We're getting

182
00:17:25,120 --> 00:17:31,840
 live boosts from unfunded. Which is so cool. That part's working. That's really neat. And so I'll

183
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,040
 have that feed out there. We'll have it linked in the show notes if you want to go try it for a bit.

184
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,440
 Don't delete your main feed, but maybe I'll put the live version in there or something. So you

185
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:44,080
 got something a little different. Yeah, something special. Yeah. Okay. I like that idea. Yeah. Okay.

186
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:50,000
 All right. Let's talk transcripts, Brentley. I know this has been a topic in our GitHub and

187
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:55,840
 our community for a bit. It has. And there's been work going on there, which I unfortunately have

188
00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:00,160
 not been a deep part of, but there's some stuff happening. And Chris, I know you were doing

189
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:06,480
 some testing as well. So the idea of the transcripts would be we put out a show and then after it's

190
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:12,320
 published. And then after we do it live, the transcripts happen. So the transcripts wouldn't

191
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,880
 be happening. Well, I say that now, but actually having transcripts live might be kind of interesting

192
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:22,480
 in the future. But typically it would be done after the fact. But we need a way to do this. So we've

193
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:28,480
 been toying with a bunch of different stuff to solve this problem. And I say we, but really it's

194
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:37,360
 the JB communities come together and worked on testing a bunch of transcription engines.

195
00:18:37,690 --> 00:18:43,370
 to see if it can pull voices and transcribe some of the tech terms that we use properly,

196
00:18:43,370 --> 00:18:48,170
 but also try to-- another challenge has been to distinguish between various speakers.

197
00:18:48,170 --> 00:18:53,450
 So when Chris is speaking versus when Wes is speaking or Alex or myself,

198
00:18:53,450 --> 00:18:59,050
 that's a bit of a challenge at this point. But really, what we want to do, one of our goals

199
00:18:59,050 --> 00:19:05,210
 this early year, is to get transcriptions included in our podcast feeds, if we can,

200
00:19:05,210 --> 00:19:11,130
 and just be available in general. And so, Chris, I think you've been doing some work on that too.

201
00:19:11,130 --> 00:19:13,290
 What have you stayed up all night just toying with things?

202
00:19:13,290 --> 00:19:18,090
 Oh, boy, Brent. Who doggie, Brently? That's what I say. I say who doggie, Brent.

203
00:19:18,090 --> 00:19:19,050
 Who doggie?

204
00:19:19,050 --> 00:19:23,770
 The folks in our community that have been playing around with transcripts, you're already well

205
00:19:23,770 --> 00:19:28,970
 aware of Whisper. We've talked about it a little bit before on this show, but we went all in last

206
00:19:28,970 --> 00:19:33,930
 night on just seeing what the capabilities of Whisper were and what the dynamics would be for

207
00:19:33,930 --> 00:19:40,810
 working with it. Because ideally, transcripts should be something that just happened automatically

208
00:19:40,810 --> 00:19:47,050
 in the background. And then once the transcription is done, the file gets posted online, and we just

209
00:19:47,050 --> 00:19:52,170
 override a stand. So the idea would be like, when we publish the episode, because transcriptions,

210
00:19:52,170 --> 00:19:58,330
 we suspect-- this is all still getting figured out-- but we suspect that transcripts will take

211
00:19:59,130 --> 00:20:04,810
 longer to process than encoding the episode and publishing it will. And so the episode is going

212
00:20:04,810 --> 00:20:10,170
 to publish, and then the transcriptions are going to come along after the fact. But we don't want to

213
00:20:10,170 --> 00:20:14,650
 force a new download on everybody. We don't want to make it look like the RSS feed has changed

214
00:20:14,650 --> 00:20:19,930
 and everybody has to pull the file again. So what we'll likely do is have a placeholder transcripts

215
00:20:19,930 --> 00:20:24,970
 file that'll be in the RSS feed, that'll say something like, "Transcripts are coming soon. Stand by."

216
00:20:25,770 --> 00:20:30,250
 And then once the transcripts are done, we will just overwrite that file, and all the transcripts

217
00:20:30,250 --> 00:20:35,130
 will be there. We won't have to change anything in the RSS feed. The podcast clients will be none

218
00:20:35,130 --> 00:20:40,330
 the wiser except for all of a sudden now the transcripts will load. Now, how do you do that?

219
00:20:40,330 --> 00:20:46,970
 You can pay for it. There's lots of hosted Whisper services, Whisper AI. There's lots of

220
00:20:46,970 --> 00:20:50,650
 different options, including one of the more popular ones in the podcasting to the dope community is

221
00:20:50,650 --> 00:21:00,970
 Otter AI. Otter AI seems really good, I have to say. But the pricing, I just can't. And most of

222
00:21:00,970 --> 00:21:05,290
 them don't even offer like an API. They want you to manually upload the file, like some kind of

223
00:21:05,290 --> 00:21:11,370
 caveman, and then come back to it in like 30 minutes or something, and then download a text file,

224
00:21:11,370 --> 00:21:15,610
 and then go upload it to your server. It's just silly, right? When we have the flaks,

225
00:21:16,410 --> 00:21:20,970
 we could just run it from a flak, kick out the text file, put it where it needs to go on object

226
00:21:20,970 --> 00:21:25,370
 storage or whatever. It just seems obvious. So Whisper lets you do this on the command line.

227
00:21:25,370 --> 00:21:30,090
 That's clearly the way we want to go. So we started playing around with something called

228
00:21:30,090 --> 00:21:35,450
 Web Whisper. And you can find this on GitHub. It is a Docker-contained,

229
00:21:35,450 --> 00:21:43,290
 self-hostable Whisper implementation. So you can do your own homebrew transcriptions using

230
00:21:44,170 --> 00:21:50,810
 solid models. And it's pretty neat. You select, I have no idea, I just selected an MP3. You can

231
00:21:50,810 --> 00:21:55,610
 tell which language or it can just auto detect. You can request it, it create a subtitle file,

232
00:21:55,610 --> 00:22:01,930
 you can even have it translate, and then you kick it off. And it will upload the file to the server,

233
00:22:01,930 --> 00:22:06,730
 and then the server begins processing in the background. And then theoretically, it delivers

234
00:22:06,730 --> 00:22:14,410
 you a transcript file. Now, I say theoretically because now I'm sure there's tuning left to be

235
00:22:14,410 --> 00:22:24,650
 done. But we wanted to try this, and we have only one server that's truly like just ludicrous powerful.

236
00:22:24,650 --> 00:22:35,130
 And it's one of our linodes. It's got 48 AMD Epic processor cores, and it has 96 gigs of RAM.

237
00:22:35,130 --> 00:22:41,050
 And so we run Matrix on that because we just don't want Matrix to be slow. We want the Matrix

238
00:22:41,050 --> 00:22:46,890
 experience to be great. And we could also do software optimization to make Matrix run better,

239
00:22:46,890 --> 00:22:53,450
 but we're working on that. So we thought, well, let's throw this transcription thing on this box

240
00:22:53,450 --> 00:22:57,770
 in the evening when it's not too busy and see what it can do. So around 7pm, we loaded up two

241
00:22:57,770 --> 00:23:05,050
 different episodes about an hour and 10 minutes long through them on this machine. And I mean,

242
00:23:05,050 --> 00:23:12,810
 credit to Linode, by the way, it took it. It took it, dude. I have a screenshot here where you can

243
00:23:12,810 --> 00:23:28,250
 see all 48 cores were pegged to 100%. And the load average was 64. Oh, my. And when I got into the

244
00:23:28,250 --> 00:23:34,650
 studio, so that was where we kicked that off around 7pm, and when I got into the studio around

245
00:23:34,650 --> 00:23:43,290
 7am, it was still going. It was still going. We eventually just had to kill it. So I imagine

246
00:23:43,290 --> 00:23:47,290
 there's some tuning we have to do. That's gotta be part of it. Yeah, that doesn't sound promising.

247
00:23:47,290 --> 00:23:53,770
 From the tests that I remember on our GitHub issue about transcriptions,

248
00:23:53,770 --> 00:24:01,610
 we did some calculations that it would take a while, but not all night for two episodes and

249
00:24:01,610 --> 00:24:09,690
 never actually reaching that. So I wonder if this just got stuck somewhere or what it's doing. I mean,

250
00:24:09,690 --> 00:24:13,290
 maybe you have an extra Bitcoin in there somewhere. Yeah, maybe it's doing a little crypto mining at

251
00:24:13,290 --> 00:24:19,050
 the same time. That's the only thing that would make sense. I gotta say, I mean, we're going to

252
00:24:19,050 --> 00:24:25,450
 play with it more and tune it a little bit because obviously that's not going to work. But I think

253
00:24:25,450 --> 00:24:29,130
 we'll figure it out. I think that's just because we're brand new to the software. Yeah, I think the

254
00:24:29,130 --> 00:24:34,970
 test case is there. And I think gaining momentum on this is actually quite exciting. I think there

255
00:24:34,970 --> 00:24:40,650
 is now a bit of an opportunity to work with the community a little bit more and try to

256
00:24:40,650 --> 00:24:46,010
 diagnose some of these issues. And it sounds like the whisper stuff seems like every other week,

257
00:24:46,010 --> 00:24:50,330
 there's a new kind of piece of technology around it. So I think it's going to progress pretty

258
00:24:50,330 --> 00:24:58,010
 quickly. And I got the feeling we might have this integrated pretty soon. I think so. One of the old

259
00:24:58,010 --> 00:25:02,010
 go to tools we used to use back in the day, which we don't use anymore because we have the

260
00:25:02,010 --> 00:25:11,130
 guiding hand of Drew editing all of our stuff now. But do you remember the old tool Alphonic,

261
00:25:11,130 --> 00:25:16,490
 German company? Yeah, yeah, this is a little tool for you podcasters out there that are having a

262
00:25:16,490 --> 00:25:21,770
 hard time with your sound and you don't have time to become an audio major like Drew.

263
00:25:23,130 --> 00:25:28,730
 This company focuses on automatic audio post production processing. So big red flag there.

264
00:25:28,730 --> 00:25:33,290
 Anytime you throw your audio into a magic box, and it comes out on the other end sounding great,

265
00:25:33,290 --> 00:25:38,890
 you got to be a little you got to lower your expectations. That said, works good enough

266
00:25:38,890 --> 00:25:42,970
 that I'm a paying customer. So every now and then like we have something we need to clean up,

267
00:25:42,970 --> 00:25:49,690
 we'll throw through it. And it can do all kinds of really cool things. Let me see if I'll see if I

268
00:25:49,690 --> 00:25:54,890
 can if I'll see if I can pull it up without giving away my account stuff. But you can you can have

269
00:25:54,890 --> 00:26:05,690
 it automatically monitor an FTP or an S3 bucket or a Dropbox file and Web Dev, Zapier, Google Drive,

270
00:26:05,690 --> 00:26:11,770
 archive.org, FTP, whatever. archive.org. That's an interesting use case. Yeah, you can have it

271
00:26:11,770 --> 00:26:17,770
 automatically monitor for when one of your files like a WAV file drops on there. It will ingest it

272
00:26:17,770 --> 00:26:24,090
 into their service. It will apply a compressor, a limiter, it'll take it'll remove background buzz.

273
00:26:24,090 --> 00:26:28,890
 It can process tracks individually, but with keeping in mind that they have to work together.

274
00:26:28,890 --> 00:26:32,970
 And now one of the things that they have added

275
00:26:32,970 --> 00:26:42,810
 open AI transcription. So now you can using this alphonic tool.

276
00:26:44,010 --> 00:26:50,570
 Have it transcribe your podcast and it'll produce what is called a web VTT file.

277
00:26:50,570 --> 00:26:56,490
 And then you can that which is accepted as a podcasting to the transcript standard.

278
00:26:56,490 --> 00:27:01,850
 So you can use alphonic to not only help process your audio if you're struggling with that if your

279
00:27:01,850 --> 00:27:05,850
 levels are a little low and you know you don't get people are people are complaining that they

280
00:27:05,850 --> 00:27:11,370
 have to like keep turning the dial up and down in the car. Those kinds of complaints. I mean the best

281
00:27:11,370 --> 00:27:14,730
 thing to do would be to learn how to actually mix your audio. But until you get there,

282
00:27:14,730 --> 00:27:20,570
 alphonic will do a lot of that for you because that they specifically are tuned for vocal

283
00:27:20,570 --> 00:27:25,050
 you know tuning and stuff like that. That's what they're all their little software does.

284
00:27:25,050 --> 00:27:29,850
 And now to add transcription to that. So when you not only do you get a file that's processed and

285
00:27:29,850 --> 00:27:35,210
 ready to go, but you've also now got a transcript of your podcast and they're doing it. They did an

286
00:27:35,210 --> 00:27:40,890
 hour and 10 minute show for me in probably about 15 minutes, which is really good. And the transcript

287
00:27:40,890 --> 00:27:45,690
 is pretty good too. Well, that's impressive. I mean, it seems like a great service really when

288
00:27:45,690 --> 00:27:51,450
 you bundle all that together for someone who you know isn't lucky enough to have a true. But

289
00:27:51,450 --> 00:27:58,250
 15 minutes is a little shorter than all night, I think. So obviously we're doing something wrong.

290
00:27:58,250 --> 00:28:04,010
 Yeah, I mean who knows. Maybe they have it on a huge massive powerful system. It might not even

291
00:28:04,010 --> 00:28:08,730
 be their system. Maybe they're just renting time on. I mean, that would be the smart way to do it,

292
00:28:08,730 --> 00:28:14,730
 I imagine. Yeah. Well, Bradley, let's let's mention Linode because this is all running on Linode,

293
00:28:14,730 --> 00:28:19,690
 you know, the the peer tube stuff that we're doing, the streaming that we're doing,

294
00:28:19,690 --> 00:28:26,330
 the object storage for the XML files for the RSS feed, the artwork for it that pulls into the

295
00:28:26,330 --> 00:28:31,530
 podcast player. It's all hosted on Linode. It really is a powerful combination for us because

296
00:28:31,530 --> 00:28:36,570
 it's straightforward. You know, I'm not a S3 object storage bucket guy. You know, I don't

297
00:28:36,570 --> 00:28:41,210
 know my buckets that well. But the UI is really straightforward and the command line

298
00:28:41,210 --> 00:28:46,010
 clients even better. You know, I can produce the XML file. Boom, here it is on my file system and

299
00:28:46,010 --> 00:28:50,250
 the downloads directory from sovereign feeds. And I just hit the up arrow of my command line

300
00:28:50,250 --> 00:28:55,610
 to just re upload it to object storage and hit it again to mark it as read by the world. And then

301
00:28:55,610 --> 00:29:00,330
 I go refresh. It's really nice when you start just integrating the tooling like that. And they also

302
00:29:00,330 --> 00:29:04,250
 will work with your tooling. So if you want to use Terraform and Ansible or play around with

303
00:29:04,250 --> 00:29:09,050
 Kubernetes, you can do all that over there. If you go to linode.com/jupiter, you get 100 bucks.

304
00:29:09,050 --> 00:29:11,930
 So you could mess around with the next cloud server, you could mess around with setting up a

305
00:29:11,930 --> 00:29:18,250
 Kubernetes infrastructure like spin up a dozen nanodes, mess around with that. I mean, you think

306
00:29:18,250 --> 00:29:22,410
 about it, you could make it your home lab, especially when you get that 100 bucks. It's a great way

307
00:29:22,410 --> 00:29:26,330
 to support the show. And Linode's going to get even better throughout the rest of the year as

308
00:29:26,330 --> 00:29:31,290
 they turn it up past 11. They're rolling out a dozen new data centers throughout the rest of the

309
00:29:31,290 --> 00:29:38,330
 year, going to get even better and more locations, which is just that is crazy. It's remarkable.

310
00:29:38,330 --> 00:29:43,610
 Yeah. Yeah. Look at this. I remember I went through this on a highlight of Amsterdam's in there.

311
00:29:43,610 --> 00:29:47,610
 But you know what, you know, which one I'm really excited about not to be selfish.

312
00:29:47,610 --> 00:29:53,850
 They're spinning up a Seattle data center. Oh, you've been asking for that for a while now.

313
00:29:53,850 --> 00:29:57,610
 There's there's several on the West Coast, but there's like some in Europe.

314
00:29:59,370 --> 00:30:04,250
 Yeah. Like everywhere, they're going to be everywhere dude. They're going to be everywhere.

315
00:30:04,250 --> 00:30:10,730
 Linode is the one is the one in the Eastern Rockies of Canada. I could use, I could use that.

316
00:30:10,730 --> 00:30:14,730
 We should, we should find out. They are, they also are going to, well, you know what you can do is

317
00:30:14,730 --> 00:30:21,210
 that if they, I forgot the name of it, but they're going to have like this micro linode systems too

318
00:30:21,210 --> 00:30:26,410
 that they're going to set up in some locations. So that is a great idea. I mean, I'm, I'm biased,

319
00:30:26,410 --> 00:30:31,210
 but that's a, that sounds pretty fascinating. Maybe they hook you up. You never know. You never

320
00:30:31,210 --> 00:30:40,250
 know. I think, I think over 2023, Linode's cloud hosting model is going to be the one that is probably,

321
00:30:40,250 --> 00:30:46,970
 I don't know, maybe considered like the alternative to the hyperscalers that really works.

322
00:30:46,970 --> 00:30:50,250
 You know, when people are looking to cut back on cost, but they still need performance,

323
00:30:50,250 --> 00:30:55,450
 reliability and great support, you know, why dump a bunch of money into one of these duopoly

324
00:30:55,450 --> 00:31:00,010
 hypervisors that just wants to constantly upsell you and their whole thing is more, more, more,

325
00:31:00,010 --> 00:31:05,370
 more, right? And then when you need support, it's like, oh, no, no, no, no, this is not going to work

326
00:31:05,370 --> 00:31:11,210
 when people need value. I'm, I'm bullish on Linode. So go check it out. Linode.com/jupiter.

327
00:31:11,210 --> 00:31:12,970
 Support the show and get a hundred bucks. You know what I'm saying?

328
00:31:12,970 --> 00:31:19,370
 I do. Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. I'm bullish on them. I'm bullish. I love that.

329
00:31:19,370 --> 00:31:23,770
 Well, there's a little bit of podcasting news this week. I don't know. Um,

330
00:31:24,170 --> 00:31:28,170
 okay, probably the one I want to talk about the most is because I'm trying to get the word out

331
00:31:28,170 --> 00:31:34,570
 there for my friends. If you rely on Patreon as a revenue source these days, I think you

332
00:31:34,570 --> 00:31:42,410
 got to rethink it. We spun down slowly our Patreon over the last year and paused all

333
00:31:42,410 --> 00:31:49,370
 account, what do you call it, transactions, I guess, at the end of December of last year because

334
00:31:49,370 --> 00:31:55,530
 of concerns around Patreon. And we have our own member system using memberful. And that's a,

335
00:31:55,530 --> 00:32:00,730
 that is owned by Patreon, but it is run by the original staff, much better support, much better

336
00:32:00,730 --> 00:32:08,090
 API, much cleaner setup, not ideal still though, but it is better. But at Patreon itself, things

337
00:32:08,090 --> 00:32:14,330
 are pretty bad. And the actual article is behind a paywall from the information. So you can't read

338
00:32:14,330 --> 00:32:18,570
 the actual article unless you have an information subscription, which is like 200 bucks a year.

339
00:32:19,130 --> 00:32:27,930
 However, the author posted all of the best bits on her Twitter feed. She talks about Patreon's

340
00:32:27,930 --> 00:32:32,090
 six figure settlement to three different female employees who said they experienced

341
00:32:32,090 --> 00:32:39,690
 unequal treatment by Conte, that's the CEO, and other execs. One employee spoke on the record

342
00:32:39,690 --> 00:32:45,130
 about her experience settlement and why she refuses to let them silence her. But also in

343
00:32:45,130 --> 00:32:50,650
 2021, Patreon's finance execs negotiated a special stock deal for themselves, real shady looking.

344
00:32:50,650 --> 00:32:55,450
 When Patreon's outside attorneys heard about the plan, they were stunned and urged them not to

345
00:32:55,450 --> 00:33:00,090
 do it. They did it anyways. Patreon's been spending big in recent years beefing up as

346
00:33:00,090 --> 00:33:07,610
 product engineering teams, but nothing to show for it. It took them four years to roll out the

347
00:33:07,610 --> 00:33:14,010
 video player on Patreon. Product stagnation stems in part from the Patreon CEO, Jack Conte,

348
00:33:14,010 --> 00:33:18,730
 who is known for being easily distracted by new ideas, especially ones that originate from creators,

349
00:33:18,730 --> 00:33:24,250
 people who work for him complain. And it goes on. The financial stuff I think is shady.

350
00:33:24,250 --> 00:33:31,130
 The failure to execute on projects is typical. It just feels like a company that is engulfed by

351
00:33:31,130 --> 00:33:37,370
 everything that has been awful in this over-financialization of tech in this last decade. And it all

352
00:33:37,370 --> 00:33:45,770
 kind of is, unfortunately, undercutting creators' ability to make money. Brent, do you know a

353
00:33:45,770 --> 00:33:50,410
 single Patreon that has grown very significantly in the last year? Can you think of a single one?

354
00:33:50,410 --> 00:34:04,250
 No, despite my efforts. But this feels like the real people losing, like you said, are the creators.

355
00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:12,890
 And man, it was like, basically everyone is using it. And so do you see a real great alternative?

356
00:34:12,890 --> 00:34:16,730
 I mean, we've been talking about alternative solutions for about a year now. But

357
00:34:16,730 --> 00:34:22,330
 this feels like a real blow to basically creators on all platforms, it seems like.

358
00:34:22,330 --> 00:34:29,690
 I think so too, because it did have that nice kind of network effect. Well, I got a Patreon

359
00:34:29,690 --> 00:34:34,170
 account already. And so I'll add one more because it's just another five bucks or whatever. And

360
00:34:34,170 --> 00:34:40,890
 I still, my total spend on Patreon is reasonable. And it kind of made it simpler to just add one

361
00:34:40,890 --> 00:34:46,890
 more project or one more creator that you supported. And I felt like that had a real positive

362
00:34:46,890 --> 00:34:53,210
 kind of network effect for podcasts when Jupre Broadcasting was one of the first Linux podcasts

363
00:34:53,210 --> 00:34:58,810
 to launch a Patreon. And now, like all the Linux podcasts have Patreon. And for a bit, I feel like

364
00:34:59,610 --> 00:35:05,050
 we were all benefiting from that. But then I also felt like it stagnated, like we oversaturated at

365
00:35:05,050 --> 00:35:12,410
 the same time too, perhaps, maybe a little bit of that was going on. And ultimately, the stagnation

366
00:35:12,410 --> 00:35:16,090
 meant that the user base didn't grow because they weren't really adding features that expanded

367
00:35:16,090 --> 00:35:22,810
 that network effect. They just kind of quit growing that network. And at the same time, it gets me

368
00:35:22,810 --> 00:35:31,850
 thinking about kind of that huge model of just the perfect capitalistic system where it's VC

369
00:35:31,850 --> 00:35:39,050
 funded and you grow forever. And it feels like something like Patreon. It's just like a service.

370
00:35:39,050 --> 00:35:46,250
 And so they've been massively successful in the billions of dollars of revenue. So I feel like

371
00:35:46,250 --> 00:35:52,170
 wouldn't it be nice if they were happy to just offer this service and not need to reach out into

372
00:35:52,170 --> 00:35:59,290
 all these areas that maybe they're not experts at and then eventually just kind of dissipate on

373
00:35:59,290 --> 00:36:04,090
 their main original mission. And then, you know, it all falls down and we got to build something

374
00:36:04,090 --> 00:36:10,090
 else up. And this cycle just continues. It seems kind of sad, actually. I mean, you're making,

375
00:36:10,090 --> 00:36:14,970
 I'm trying not to do it, but you are making the case for Boost and Lightning Network because

376
00:36:14,970 --> 00:36:18,890
 the Lightning Network and the Boost are unique in the sense that you get that network effect,

377
00:36:18,890 --> 00:36:25,130
 the more creators that are accepting Boost, the more we all benefit, it's chips and tides,

378
00:36:25,130 --> 00:36:31,290
 analogy, it's obvious, and we've seen it. There's now 11,300 podcasts that are taking Boost.

379
00:36:31,290 --> 00:36:35,130
 It seems like that growth is slowing, but it also has been the holidays. But I mean,

380
00:36:35,130 --> 00:36:40,410
 I would imagine you're probably going to see some curving of that trend. But 11,300 at least that

381
00:36:40,410 --> 00:36:44,970
 are on fountain that are capable of receiving Boost as of this morning. When we started doing

382
00:36:44,970 --> 00:36:50,090
 this, it was 4,000. I think that's pretty remarkable right there. That's a lot of boats that are

383
00:36:50,090 --> 00:36:57,370
 rising with the tide. You have that network effect without any centralized company that always has to

384
00:36:57,370 --> 00:37:07,290
 inevitably inject their strategy tax or their broken corporate culture or just politics which

385
00:37:07,290 --> 00:37:13,290
 change and ebb and flow over the years. Politics have changed so significantly in the last 15 years

386
00:37:13,290 --> 00:37:15,290
 since when I started doing this.

387
00:37:15,380 --> 00:37:22,780
 that I have realized that these things just kind of ebb and flow over time and companies

388
00:37:22,780 --> 00:37:25,620
 get drug along in those tides.

389
00:37:25,620 --> 00:37:29,480
 I'm not interested in building anything on top of a moving base like that.

390
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:30,480
 Not interested in that at all.

391
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,740
 And so when I started looking at the next 15 years, about a year ago, and I said, what

392
00:37:34,740 --> 00:37:36,860
 do I need to build my business on?

393
00:37:36,860 --> 00:37:42,860
 I realized that the funding element had to be on an open network with no middleman.

394
00:37:42,860 --> 00:37:44,700
 And I was like, well, that's impossible.

395
00:37:44,700 --> 00:37:46,340
 So we'll do memorable for now.

396
00:37:46,340 --> 00:37:47,340
 This is really a couple of years ago.

397
00:37:47,340 --> 00:37:50,460
 And then Boost came along and Boost truly solved this problem.

398
00:37:50,460 --> 00:37:53,220
 I mean, it's hard because you got to buy sat's.

399
00:37:53,220 --> 00:37:56,260
 I admit that, although that will get easier with time.

400
00:37:56,260 --> 00:37:57,260
 But Linux is hard.

401
00:37:57,260 --> 00:37:58,260
 Matrix is hard.

402
00:37:58,260 --> 00:38:00,140
 Mumble is hard.

403
00:38:00,140 --> 00:38:05,500
 Podcasts were excruciatingly hard in the beginning.

404
00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:08,060
 Everything's hard in the beginning that's worth doing.

405
00:38:08,060 --> 00:38:11,180
 And so I can look past that for now.

406
00:38:11,180 --> 00:38:15,180
 And I really look at this Patreon situation, and I think the only solution isn't to go

407
00:38:15,180 --> 00:38:21,100
 to yet another system that has a company over it, that then has to also deal with the credit

408
00:38:21,100 --> 00:38:25,580
 card companies who have to deal with the banks, who have to deal with the data brokers and

409
00:38:25,580 --> 00:38:29,980
 the settlement layer, who have to actually deal with the actual central banks, right?

410
00:38:29,980 --> 00:38:37,580
 Like there's all these layers when you have a Patreon subscription versus a Boost, which

411
00:38:37,580 --> 00:38:44,940
 is just an open peer-to-peer network from the listener to the creator into their wallet.

412
00:38:44,940 --> 00:38:50,980
 You know, and that to me just, that foundation seems like impossible to beat regardless of

413
00:38:50,980 --> 00:38:53,740
 what feature or API a company might have one day.

414
00:38:53,740 --> 00:39:01,340
 Now, Chris, I think you mentioned in passing that memberful are owned by Patreon, but run

415
00:39:01,340 --> 00:39:06,860
 by, you mentioned, I think, the original staff or a different team at least.

416
00:39:06,860 --> 00:39:09,180
 But there still seems like quite a close tie there.

417
00:39:09,180 --> 00:39:14,380
 So if we're suggesting that Patreon is sort of slowly falling apart, I would imagine that

418
00:39:14,380 --> 00:39:16,860
 might go with it at some point.

419
00:39:16,860 --> 00:39:23,500
 So I'm curious on your thoughts around using Boosts to become a membership, you know, because

420
00:39:23,500 --> 00:39:29,820
 the way the memberships work now is there's a bit of an agreement that X number of value

421
00:39:29,820 --> 00:39:37,380
 groups or funds will be shipped over on a monthly basis to receive something in return.

422
00:39:37,380 --> 00:39:40,660
 But Boosts don't really work that way.

423
00:39:40,660 --> 00:39:45,180
 They work on like a, I'm going to send this thing right now.

424
00:39:45,180 --> 00:39:51,780
 But I haven't seen any scheduling systems around Boosts yet or any of this kind of like membership

425
00:39:51,780 --> 00:39:54,140
 means of looking at the system.

426
00:39:54,140 --> 00:39:57,500
 Have you seen anything in that area or do you have any dreams of where we might take it

427
00:39:57,500 --> 00:39:58,500
 maybe in the next year?

428
00:39:58,500 --> 00:40:01,940
 Yeah, I do see people working on it.

429
00:40:01,940 --> 00:40:06,380
 I'm mixed.

430
00:40:06,380 --> 00:40:12,100
 I like the hybrid approach because there are going to be people who just would prefer to

431
00:40:12,100 --> 00:40:19,100
 spend fiat for multiple reasons from dislike of sats to if they're going to spend funds

432
00:40:19,100 --> 00:40:22,660
 on something like that, they want to spend fiat and not sats.

433
00:40:22,660 --> 00:40:29,820
 So there's, I feel like a market demand for a solution that doesn't, that lives within

434
00:40:29,820 --> 00:40:32,420
 the standard financial system.

435
00:40:32,420 --> 00:40:38,820
 The problem there, right, is so that means by default, the membership at $5 a month basically

436
00:40:38,820 --> 00:40:40,500
 is at cost.

437
00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:44,980
 And so we have to like set it higher than I think probably people would be comfortable

438
00:40:44,980 --> 00:40:46,620
 with during a recession.

439
00:40:46,620 --> 00:40:49,620
 But it's just because there's so many middlemen in there.

440
00:40:49,620 --> 00:40:55,860
 But it's automatic, what you said, it's kind of a forecastable amount of revenue, assuming

441
00:40:55,860 --> 00:40:59,340
 the membership stay current or grow or don't climb too much.

442
00:40:59,340 --> 00:41:03,580
 Those things are all really nice where part of the wild and crazy uncomfortable thing about

443
00:41:03,580 --> 00:41:09,860
 a pure value for value and just you send it, you send an amount in is, you don't know,

444
00:41:09,860 --> 00:41:12,140
 maybe there's going to be some weeks where not much comes in.

445
00:41:12,140 --> 00:41:13,140
 Well, there will be.

446
00:41:13,140 --> 00:41:14,700
 There'll be some weeks where just not much comes in.

447
00:41:14,700 --> 00:41:17,140
 Other times, people are extremely generous.

448
00:41:17,140 --> 00:41:19,940
 Like in this week's episode, we'll see people were very, very generous.

449
00:41:19,940 --> 00:41:21,900
 People are boosting right now, especially unfunded.

450
00:41:21,900 --> 00:41:22,900
 Woo!

451
00:41:22,900 --> 00:41:25,300
 You never know when you're going to get that kind of generosity.

452
00:41:25,300 --> 00:41:28,620
 But with the membership program, you know exactly what it's going to be.

453
00:41:28,620 --> 00:41:33,900
 And they don't have to mess around with anything that's like crypto related.

454
00:41:33,900 --> 00:41:35,180
 So I think there is a benefit to it.

455
00:41:35,180 --> 00:41:41,700
 And I would almost try to explore, I don't know, maybe building our own around Stripe

456
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:50,300
 or something like that if we had to just because I always like, you know, also why we have

457
00:41:50,300 --> 00:41:56,220
 a just because we have a hybrid model here, really, we take some, we take the right kind

458
00:41:56,220 --> 00:42:01,540
 of advertising with the right deals, handcrafted negotiated advertising deals.

459
00:42:01,540 --> 00:42:06,420
 We have a membership system where people can invest in the ongoing production of the shows

460
00:42:06,420 --> 00:42:09,260
 using their fiat fund coupons.

461
00:42:09,260 --> 00:42:13,660
 And we have the boosts, which are not only a kind of thank you for the existing production.

462
00:42:13,660 --> 00:42:14,660
 Hey, that episode was great.

463
00:42:14,660 --> 00:42:17,140
 I got this kind of value from it and a way to message.

464
00:42:17,140 --> 00:42:22,820
 So it's all of those things, but are also an investment in the future of the network.

465
00:42:22,820 --> 00:42:27,980
 And what I mean by that is how many boosts did we get when Bitcoin was 16,000?

466
00:42:27,980 --> 00:42:32,740
 We got hundreds of boosts when Bitcoin was at $16,000.

467
00:42:32,740 --> 00:42:35,100
 Well, Bitcoin is now at $23,000.

468
00:42:35,100 --> 00:42:38,580
 So those sets just went to work for those people who sent them in.

469
00:42:38,580 --> 00:42:42,780
 So their boosts are doing more work for them now.

470
00:42:42,780 --> 00:42:44,860
 That's an ongoing investment too.

471
00:42:44,860 --> 00:42:46,700
 It just takes longer to appreciate.

472
00:42:46,700 --> 00:42:49,420
 But that's something that I don't take lightly.

473
00:42:49,420 --> 00:42:54,380
 And it's one of the reasons why what we do right now with our sets is we don't sell them.

474
00:42:54,380 --> 00:42:56,540
 We turn around and we put them into liquidity.

475
00:42:56,540 --> 00:43:00,580
 We add open up channels to community members and to podcast apps.

476
00:43:00,580 --> 00:43:02,300
 We fund nodes like yours.

477
00:43:02,300 --> 00:43:03,780
 We fund nodes like mine.

478
00:43:03,780 --> 00:43:06,980
 We fund also other podcasts.

479
00:43:06,980 --> 00:43:09,900
 We'll take some of those sets sometimes and spray them at other podcasters just to help

480
00:43:09,900 --> 00:43:11,660
 kind of spread the love around.

481
00:43:11,660 --> 00:43:13,420
 That's what we do with those sets.

482
00:43:13,420 --> 00:43:16,900
 And they just continue to do more work for us as the price goes up.

483
00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:21,700
 And when the price goes down, there's still a utility there for channel liquidity and

484
00:43:21,700 --> 00:43:25,660
 managing all of the lightning aspect.

485
00:43:25,660 --> 00:43:30,300
 The three different tiers each have a lot of strengths on their own from advertising

486
00:43:30,300 --> 00:43:31,820
 to memberships to boosts.

487
00:43:31,820 --> 00:43:37,500
 And I don't really want to get rid of any one of them until at least it's necessary,

488
00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:38,500
 I suppose.

489
00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:42,340
 Well, I guess we'll see where this all goes.

490
00:43:42,340 --> 00:43:45,260
 And hopefully it doesn't disrupt us too much.

491
00:43:45,260 --> 00:43:48,540
 Tuck and roll.

492
00:43:48,540 --> 00:43:49,540
 Tuck and roll.

493
00:43:49,540 --> 00:43:52,500
 And for those of you that are trying to tuck and roll, Blueberry is pushing it even further.

494
00:43:52,500 --> 00:43:57,780
 We talked about how they had really some documentation and we're talking about podcasting 2.0 and

495
00:43:57,780 --> 00:43:59,980
 updating their plugin.

496
00:43:59,980 --> 00:44:04,380
 Well now this week, Albi announced a partnership with Blueberry, the leading podcast platform

497
00:44:04,380 --> 00:44:05,380
 for hosting.

498
00:44:05,380 --> 00:44:10,180
 They have a great WordPress plugin and they're going to do value for value streaming integration

499
00:44:10,180 --> 00:44:16,380
 with Albi and Blueberry to make it like super simple for a whole new generation of podcasters

500
00:44:16,380 --> 00:44:18,460
 to get into this.

501
00:44:18,460 --> 00:44:20,380
 Everything I think is so exciting.

502
00:44:20,380 --> 00:44:27,100
 And the really beautiful thing about it is just Todd Cochran and Blueberry seem to be

503
00:44:27,100 --> 00:44:32,220
 really seriously committed about communicating to a new generation of podcasters that haven't

504
00:44:32,220 --> 00:44:37,820
 really gotten it yet and doing it in terms that seem really approachable and understandable

505
00:44:37,820 --> 00:44:40,940
 with motivations that seem reasonable that I think people will connect with.

506
00:44:40,940 --> 00:44:41,940
 Do you know what I mean, Brent?

507
00:44:41,940 --> 00:44:48,100
 Like it's like it is a serious actor with a real reputation that's been around for a

508
00:44:48,100 --> 00:44:56,100
 long time and is delivered and now they're advocating this to a whole range of creators.

509
00:44:56,100 --> 00:45:00,780
 Yeah, seems like they have more reach than maybe we might.

510
00:45:00,780 --> 00:45:04,100
 But it's also hitting people when they're first discovering this and first getting into

511
00:45:04,100 --> 00:45:08,980
 it, which is a nice time and they're automating a bunch of stuff that you have had to figure

512
00:45:08,980 --> 00:45:09,980
 out in the last year.

513
00:45:09,980 --> 00:45:14,540
 Yeah, they're going to put a lot of this into the tooling, including support for the live

514
00:45:14,540 --> 00:45:15,540
 item tag.

515
00:45:15,540 --> 00:45:16,980
 That's 100% fire.

516
00:45:16,980 --> 00:45:18,220
 I am so excited about that.

517
00:45:18,220 --> 00:45:22,420
 So this stuff, it's getting easier.

518
00:45:22,420 --> 00:45:24,740
 It's getting more approachable.

519
00:45:24,740 --> 00:45:25,740
 And this is the last one.

520
00:45:25,740 --> 00:45:27,860
 This one's really, this whole theme is really for people that I guess they're going to be

521
00:45:27,860 --> 00:45:28,860
 creating.

522
00:45:28,860 --> 00:45:33,020
 But Listener Genebean created behind the scenes how it's made blog post.

523
00:45:33,020 --> 00:45:35,460
 Really comprehensive, really, really great.

524
00:45:35,460 --> 00:45:39,820
 And how they've integrated podcasting and how he does guests and recording and edits

525
00:45:39,820 --> 00:45:40,820
 the audio.

526
00:45:40,820 --> 00:45:46,140
 And I mean, if you're looking for information on how to do it, he's figuring it out right

527
00:45:46,140 --> 00:45:49,220
 now and capturing his thoughts as he figures it out, which is really valuable.

528
00:45:49,220 --> 00:45:53,980
 So we'll link to Genebean's blog post in the show notes.

529
00:45:53,980 --> 00:45:55,540
 I'm hyped.

530
00:45:55,540 --> 00:45:57,220
 Very excited to be doing this.

531
00:45:57,220 --> 00:46:01,260
 This is what the Jupiter test signal is really cool.

532
00:46:01,260 --> 00:46:04,180
 And even more fun about is the artwork.

533
00:46:04,180 --> 00:46:11,100
 The album art, of course, was AI generated because we're doing AI generated transcripts.

534
00:46:11,100 --> 00:46:13,900
 We're going to do AI generated album art.

535
00:46:13,900 --> 00:46:15,340
 It's pretty good too.

536
00:46:15,340 --> 00:46:16,340
 It's not bad.

537
00:46:16,340 --> 00:46:18,660
 I'm not sure which one's you and which one's me there.

538
00:46:18,660 --> 00:46:20,140
 Yeah, it's not bad.

539
00:46:20,140 --> 00:46:22,140
 It's not bad.

540
00:46:22,140 --> 00:46:23,140
 It's pretty funny.

541
00:46:23,140 --> 00:46:27,340
 You know, I will say, I think we do certainly have other things to figure out around this

542
00:46:27,340 --> 00:46:34,100
 because Wes sent us while we're live here a little screenshot that the Jupiter test

543
00:46:34,100 --> 00:46:40,060
 signal apparently is sending out from the past the date on it December 3, 1969.

544
00:46:40,060 --> 00:46:42,940
 So I think we're, does that make us the first podcasters out there?

545
00:46:42,940 --> 00:46:43,940
 Yeah, that's accurate.

546
00:46:43,940 --> 00:46:46,980
 Yeah, that's part of what took so much work is I also had to get the time machine component

547
00:46:46,980 --> 00:46:47,980
 function.

548
00:46:47,980 --> 00:46:48,980
 Yeah, that was tricky.

549
00:46:48,980 --> 00:46:49,980
 Yeah.

550
00:46:49,980 --> 00:46:50,980
 I mean, why does that?

551
00:46:50,980 --> 00:46:55,180
 Because I did put the date in there, but I wonder if maybe maybe like it's formatted

552
00:46:55,180 --> 00:46:56,780
 in a way the podverse didn't read.

553
00:46:56,780 --> 00:47:00,460
 So it just kind of defaults to December 31, 1969.

554
00:47:00,460 --> 00:47:02,140
 But it was a good day.

555
00:47:02,140 --> 00:47:07,580
 Kind of cool that Jupiter test signal is the first podcast ever by like a few decades.

556
00:47:07,580 --> 00:47:10,740
 And only the listeners of this show will know that.

557
00:47:10,740 --> 00:47:11,740
 Yeah.

558
00:47:11,740 --> 00:47:17,460
 So I mean, after all, Brent, as I've said, the RSS feed is the source of truth.

559
00:47:17,460 --> 00:47:21,500
 So if it says it's December 31, 1969.

560
00:47:21,500 --> 00:47:22,500
 Hard to argue.

561
00:47:22,500 --> 00:47:23,500
 It's true.

562
00:47:23,500 --> 00:47:24,500
 It's true.

563
00:47:24,500 --> 00:47:25,500
 Okay.

564
00:47:25,500 --> 00:47:26,500
 All right.

565
00:47:26,500 --> 00:47:32,580
 Well, why don't we start rounding it out by mentioning that I've updated the splits a

566
00:47:32,580 --> 00:47:34,340
 little bit on office hours.

567
00:47:34,340 --> 00:47:39,100
 It's in the test signal feed and on Linux unplugged across all the shows actually.

568
00:47:39,100 --> 00:47:42,260
 But let's talk about Linux unplugged and office hours just for a moment.

569
00:47:42,260 --> 00:47:48,820
 I have added podverse and fountain to our splits.

570
00:47:48,820 --> 00:47:53,140
 Now I've done this because podverse is great and I want to support them.

571
00:47:53,140 --> 00:47:55,940
 And I would just want to give them a little piece of the action.

572
00:47:55,940 --> 00:48:01,140
 And I did the fountain one following Oscar's recommendation.

573
00:48:01,140 --> 00:48:07,820
 So that way when people boost regardless of what app or service or how they boost their

574
00:48:07,820 --> 00:48:13,260
 boost and their amount will now be reflected in the fountain FM charts, which has been

575
00:48:13,260 --> 00:48:18,620
 tremendous for love, tremendous growth on love.

576
00:48:18,620 --> 00:48:19,620
 Thanks to those charts.

577
00:48:19,620 --> 00:48:22,380
 So I, why I'm all in for that.

578
00:48:22,380 --> 00:48:28,340
 Now the way they have me do it for fountain is I actually am sending a split to my account

579
00:48:28,340 --> 00:48:29,340
 on fountain.

580
00:48:29,340 --> 00:48:31,900
 So it's associated with our podcast or something like that.

581
00:48:31,900 --> 00:48:32,900
 I don't know.

582
00:48:32,900 --> 00:48:35,680
 But what I'm doing is I'm just going to get like a 3% split.

583
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,460
 So I'm just taking that and I'm just going to go around and spray it at people.

584
00:48:38,460 --> 00:48:41,020
 So now I've basically got like a wall and I'm going to spray it at people.

585
00:48:41,020 --> 00:48:43,860
 You're just auto funding your wallet is really what's happening.

586
00:48:43,860 --> 00:48:48,060
 Basically, yeah, but that's how you get, that's how you get your, all the other boosts from

587
00:48:48,060 --> 00:48:50,180
 all the other apps on the fountain charts.

588
00:48:50,180 --> 00:48:52,620
 That's a neat little hack actually.

589
00:48:52,620 --> 00:48:53,620
 I think that's really clever.

590
00:48:53,620 --> 00:48:54,620
 Yeah.

591
00:48:54,620 --> 00:48:57,020
 I think it was really nice of Oscar and the team to figure out a way to make that open.

592
00:48:57,020 --> 00:48:58,540
 Is it as an open network?

593
00:48:58,540 --> 00:49:01,320
 So why not have those charts be open since it's just on the Lightning Network.

594
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,580
 And the fact that they enabled this is really great from the fountain folks.

595
00:49:04,580 --> 00:49:05,680
 It took some work, I imagine.

596
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:07,360
 It doesn't just happen like that.

597
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,440
 So that's really cool to see.

598
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:14,280
 And then the other thing I did across all of the shows, this is all the shows is Drew

599
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,600
 is in the splits now for all the shows that he edits.

600
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:20,060
 Drew gets a 5% split of the boosts.

601
00:49:20,060 --> 00:49:24,720
 And so on like the podcast index, when you're boosting there, you'll see all the prompts

602
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:29,200
 come up now for all these splits and one of them now will be our editor, Drew, who's brand

603
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,160
 new to all of this, but he'll be able to see the boosts and he'll be able to get a little

604
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,740
 bit of a Bitcoin action for being involved in the production of a show.

605
00:49:36,740 --> 00:49:42,500
 And in the Jupiter test signal feed, he also gets a production credit in the feed.

606
00:49:42,500 --> 00:49:44,500
 That is so, so well deserved.

607
00:49:44,500 --> 00:49:45,500
 Yeah.

608
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:46,500
 And finally, right?

609
00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:49,740
 It's really neat to actually play with this stuff, kind of get it kind of get my head

610
00:49:49,740 --> 00:49:52,900
 around like, okay, what do we have to put up an object storage?

611
00:49:52,900 --> 00:49:55,420
 How does the podping process work?

612
00:49:55,420 --> 00:49:58,260
 How do I stage the live item stuff?

613
00:49:58,260 --> 00:49:59,260
 And now I'm like, I'm not even done.

614
00:49:59,260 --> 00:50:00,260
 It's not gonna work.

615
00:50:00,260 --> 00:50:03,040
 Then I have to go do like, I'll do one more RSS feed update for when we end the show.

616
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:07,040
 And then I'll have to do one more RSS feed update for when we publish the show.

617
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,040
 This is not sustainable.

618
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,040
 I'm gonna automate this.

619
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,040
 I'm gonna figure it out.

620
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,640
 Did you want to talk a little bit about how Drew got into the splits?

621
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,840
 Cause I think he figured this out last night, literally, right?

622
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:20,840
 Yeah, he did.

623
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:22,400
 He was, you know, good on him too.

624
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,080
 Cause it, you know, it can be a little bit of an intimidating topic, I think, you know,

625
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,980
 like, how do you all of a sudden just start receiving sats from a boost?

626
00:50:29,980 --> 00:50:34,000
 And he went the route of Albie for podcasts where he went and signed up for Albie.

627
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,500
 And then they have a particular workflow you can go through to say, Hey, I'm going to be

628
00:50:37,500 --> 00:50:40,780
 using this in a podcasting 2.0 split.

629
00:50:40,780 --> 00:50:44,260
 And they, once you're done signing up, they just say, here's your value block code.

630
00:50:44,260 --> 00:50:47,420
 And they just, and he just was able to grab that and paste it to me.

631
00:50:47,420 --> 00:50:50,980
 And I was able to put it in the splits and it's, it's choice.

632
00:50:50,980 --> 00:50:55,940
 But then what's even cooler is in sovereign feeds when you're setting up your splits, because

633
00:50:55,940 --> 00:50:59,240
 they have a screen to go in there and add everybody's amount that they get in sovereign

634
00:50:59,240 --> 00:51:00,640
 feeds.

635
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,920
 That clever bastard has added Albie and fountain usernames directly.

636
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,600
 So if you just know somebody's fountain username, you can click it and add it.

637
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,560
 So I was looking at the boost and saying who, who had boosted office hours.

638
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:16,640
 And it was right around when Marcel boosted the show from fountain.

639
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,120
 So I just grabbed Marcel's username and I put it in the sovereign feeds for the split

640
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:24,280
 for one of our, for a test for episode 21 and boom.

641
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,540
 Now Marcel's in the splits just by a fountain username.

642
00:51:27,540 --> 00:51:29,860
 It's really cool, really cool.

643
00:51:29,860 --> 00:51:34,460
 And I imagine that'll be an area that we'll play around with more because, you know, like

644
00:51:34,460 --> 00:51:38,340
 we could, when Elrig comes back on or Stefan comes back on to do a show, throw them in

645
00:51:38,340 --> 00:51:39,340
 the splits.

646
00:51:39,340 --> 00:51:40,340
 Yeah.

647
00:51:40,340 --> 00:51:45,020
 Anyways, I can, I can tell you're so jazzed this week with all of this.

648
00:51:45,020 --> 00:51:46,020
 I love it.

649
00:51:46,020 --> 00:51:47,180
 That's nice to get it going.

650
00:51:47,180 --> 00:51:50,500
 And it's nice when it works, you know, you throw it together and you see all the pieces

651
00:51:50,500 --> 00:51:55,640
 working and it actually works and they have pod ping dot watch set up as well.

652
00:51:55,640 --> 00:52:00,640
 So like in sovereign feeds, I tell it to do it to issue the pod ping and I have the pod

653
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,760
 ping watch page up and I go, there it is.

654
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:03,760
 There goes my show.

655
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,240
 And then when it's live, it turns red, you know, in the sea.

656
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:08,040
 Like you can tell it to text that it's alive.

657
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:09,040
 It's just so great.

658
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:10,040
 Oh gosh.

659
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:16,680
 Speaking of live, we got a couple of live boosts nomadic coder sent in 1,555 sets saying looking

660
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:23,420
 forward to all the JB going lit and unfunded sent in just a couple of boosts.

661
00:52:23,420 --> 00:52:27,080
 And then we also got one question in a series of booths saying, we know there's a jelly

662
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:32,660
 fin flat pack in the works, but now what else do we need to flat pack?

663
00:52:32,660 --> 00:52:38,380
 I feel like what would be amazing is for us to create like a podcast recording studio

664
00:52:38,380 --> 00:52:39,380
 in a flat pack.

665
00:52:39,380 --> 00:52:44,660
 You know, we talked about this kind of system before and I don't think the technologies

666
00:52:44,660 --> 00:52:47,400
 were really there to make it very smooth on the user end.

667
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:52,600
 But yeah, something like Docker flat pack is very tempting, isn't it?

668
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,680
 And I think, you know, I had a recent experience with steam.

669
00:52:55,680 --> 00:53:01,600
 I was trying to install it on my new laptop and you listener, Jeff gifted me a game.

670
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:05,240
 So I felt like I had to figure it out and play.

671
00:53:05,240 --> 00:53:07,880
 But the flat pack was what solved all the problems with me.

672
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,760
 I installed steam natively on open Sousa and ran into a bunch of issues.

673
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:12,920
 Things just weren't working.

674
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:14,020
 And it was the flat pack.

675
00:53:14,020 --> 00:53:18,820
 Just flat pack installed the steam client and they just figured everything out for me.

676
00:53:18,820 --> 00:53:20,860
 And it was just like plug and play almost.

677
00:53:20,860 --> 00:53:25,240
 And I got to say, I've changed my tune on on flat packs and snaps in the last couple

678
00:53:25,240 --> 00:53:27,500
 of years because it's solving some real problems.

679
00:53:27,500 --> 00:53:31,460
 And I feel like this is a perfect case for that.

680
00:53:31,460 --> 00:53:32,460
 Something to play around with.

681
00:53:32,460 --> 00:53:35,980
 I too have had a great experience with that flat pack.

682
00:53:35,980 --> 00:53:37,740
 It has worked fantastic for me.

683
00:53:37,740 --> 00:53:41,660
 All right, so let's get into the, to the offline boost with Sir lurks a lot.

684
00:53:41,660 --> 00:53:44,480
 He comes in with our baller boost this week.

685
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,000
 100,000 sats.

686
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,200
 I hoard that with your kind.

687
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:54,640
 Covered and you get a rich lobster.

688
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:56,720
 Long time listener repeat booster.

689
00:53:56,720 --> 00:54:02,400
 Sounds like you need a 100,000 boost because 80,000 sounds like a low bar for such a great

690
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:03,400
 show.

691
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:08,080
 No disrespect to my fellow boosters, but I'm trying to be a bit of a cheerleader here.

692
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,400
 He says so step up.

693
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:14,820
 Remember that part of the value for volume value model involves closing the feedback

694
00:54:14,820 --> 00:54:17,020
 loop with listeners who support the shows.

695
00:54:17,020 --> 00:54:20,660
 I think this goes beyond boost and includes other means of reciprocating value, time,

696
00:54:20,660 --> 00:54:22,940
 talent, treasure in whatever measure.

697
00:54:22,940 --> 00:54:23,940
 Go podcasting.

698
00:54:23,940 --> 00:54:25,700
 And great boost.

699
00:54:25,700 --> 00:54:29,060
 He sent some follow up leapsats to say, by the way, I like to watch the live streams or

700
00:54:29,060 --> 00:54:33,500
 replay them, but I also listen to the podcast while riding my bike to work during lunch or

701
00:54:33,500 --> 00:54:37,740
 taking a shower, cooking lots of times when the audio matters the most.

702
00:54:37,740 --> 00:54:40,960
 But today I listened to the live stream on my phone while showering.

703
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:42,960
 Mostly listen, but I still love the video too.

704
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:49,560
 Yeah, it's like a hard thing to, to really pin down because like you might do 70% audio,

705
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:50,560
 right?

706
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,440
 And yeah, but every now and then the video is a little bit better option or something

707
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:54,440
 like that.

708
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:59,040
 And then one last round of leapsats from SirLurgsLot asking when we get the name for this new

709
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:00,040
 Harry show.

710
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:01,760
 I'm searching for Jupiter signal.

711
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:04,880
 Well, go search for Jupiter test signal.

712
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:06,560
 You never know where that could go.

713
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:09,220
 You never know.

714
00:55:09,220 --> 00:55:13,940
 We also got some great booze from B Peterson 504 with 50,000 sets.

715
00:55:13,940 --> 00:55:19,140
 I hoard that, which all kind of covered long time listeners since the Lunduk days.

716
00:55:19,140 --> 00:55:23,860
 JB has been doing it right since the beginning and that's continuing into the era of podcasting

717
00:55:23,860 --> 00:55:24,860
 2.0.

718
00:55:24,860 --> 00:55:25,860
 Thank you, sir.

719
00:55:25,860 --> 00:55:26,860
 Thank you.

720
00:55:26,860 --> 00:55:28,500
 You know, that means a lot.

721
00:55:28,500 --> 00:55:32,140
 That's incredible to be listening for that long and to get a little nod that we're going

722
00:55:32,140 --> 00:55:34,100
 in the right direction.

723
00:55:34,100 --> 00:55:35,100
 Appreciate that.

724
00:55:35,100 --> 00:55:36,100
 We try.

725
00:55:36,100 --> 00:55:38,800
 Good to hear from you, B Peters.

726
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:40,880
 Jeff boost in torch.

727
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:47,960
 Boost in with 50,000 assets.

728
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:52,080
 Jeff says these chats about the podcast industry are extremely valuable.

729
00:55:53,070 --> 00:55:54,570
 use and view sets are great too.

730
00:55:54,570 --> 00:55:55,050
 Thanks.

731
00:55:55,050 --> 00:55:56,530
 Well, thank you, Jeff.

732
00:55:56,530 --> 00:55:57,530
 Thank you.

733
00:55:57,530 --> 00:56:01,530
 Um, we won't probably see Jeff on Sunday since we're not doing a show, but

734
00:56:01,530 --> 00:56:02,830
 he's often there following some plug.

735
00:56:02,830 --> 00:56:03,630
 That's true.

736
00:56:03,630 --> 00:56:07,570
 Marcel came in with 10,101 sets.

737
00:56:07,570 --> 00:56:10,570
 I just heard this week from a software development YouTuber that.

738
00:56:10,570 --> 00:56:12,050
 Podcasting is dead.

739
00:56:12,050 --> 00:56:16,370
 I believe that some podcasts are actually fading, but dead.

740
00:56:16,370 --> 00:56:17,650
 I haven't noticed.

741
00:56:17,650 --> 00:56:20,490
 I'm still getting fantastic content in my feed.

742
00:56:20,610 --> 00:56:23,250
 JB is a role model for how to make great shows sustainably.

743
00:56:23,250 --> 00:56:24,810
 You nail it in this episode.

744
00:56:24,810 --> 00:56:27,810
 Audio has a place and for me, a more important one than video.

745
00:56:27,810 --> 00:56:31,730
 Further, since podcasting is decentralized, it can never be completely dead.

746
00:56:31,730 --> 00:56:32,890
 Can never completely die.

747
00:56:32,890 --> 00:56:34,090
 Keep up the great work.

748
00:56:34,090 --> 00:56:35,890
 I got a podcasting.

749
00:56:35,890 --> 00:56:37,450
 Thanks, Marcel.

750
00:56:37,450 --> 00:56:40,170
 Such heartfelt boosts this week.

751
00:56:40,170 --> 00:56:41,170
 I know, right?

752
00:56:41,170 --> 00:56:42,090
 How nice is that?

753
00:56:42,090 --> 00:56:44,850
 Gosh, that is what's getting me in the feels here.

754
00:56:44,850 --> 00:56:50,450
 Oh, Brent Lee, you big softy.

755
00:56:50,570 --> 00:56:51,330
 That is really great.

756
00:56:51,330 --> 00:56:52,850
 All right.

757
00:56:52,850 --> 00:56:54,090
 Purple dog boosts in.

758
00:56:54,090 --> 00:56:54,610
 Nope.

759
00:56:54,610 --> 00:56:56,010
 That's wrong.

760
00:56:56,010 --> 00:56:59,930
 That drawn boost in with 9,001 sets.

761
00:56:59,930 --> 00:57:02,490
 It's over 9,000.

762
00:57:02,490 --> 00:57:04,890
 Hey, what happened to the over 9,000 boosts?

763
00:57:04,890 --> 00:57:08,790
 There have been a lot of boosts that would qualify, but I didn't hear the sound

764
00:57:08,790 --> 00:57:09,570
 clip in a while.

765
00:57:09,570 --> 00:57:11,290
 Can you please bring it back?

766
00:57:11,290 --> 00:57:11,930
 All right.

767
00:57:11,930 --> 00:57:12,650
 There you go.

768
00:57:12,650 --> 00:57:13,330
 There you go.

769
00:57:13,330 --> 00:57:19,070
 We, we've dialed back the sound bits, except for like the big boosts because, and

770
00:57:19,070 --> 00:57:23,930
 sometimes the ducks, you know, the people who don't mind the boost, they don't

771
00:57:23,930 --> 00:57:26,490
 say anything because they're just content to just listen.

772
00:57:26,490 --> 00:57:29,810
 But the people who hate the sound effects that go with the boost, the people

773
00:57:29,810 --> 00:57:32,350
 that don't like the little soundboard clips, maybe they don't mind the actual

774
00:57:32,350 --> 00:57:35,810
 boost, but they hate the soundboard effects.

775
00:57:35,810 --> 00:57:43,210
 And some of them, some of them can be really, really squeaky about their

776
00:57:43,210 --> 00:57:43,770
 hate, you know what I mean?

777
00:57:43,770 --> 00:57:44,610
 Squeaky wheel.

778
00:57:45,130 --> 00:57:51,290
 And so it's like, you know, do we keep telling them to piss off and deal with it

779
00:57:51,290 --> 00:57:56,430
 like an adult, or do we just stop playing them as much, which doesn't really

780
00:57:56,430 --> 00:57:57,370
 cost us anything.

781
00:57:57,370 --> 00:58:01,170
 And we can play them in a little more limited fashion and it's fine.

782
00:58:01,170 --> 00:58:04,310
 Maybe not as much fun, but it's totally fine.

783
00:58:04,310 --> 00:58:08,150
 So yeah, we have dialed it back a bit, but I'll keep an eye out for you, Vectoron.

784
00:58:08,150 --> 00:58:09,450
 I'll watch for you.

785
00:58:09,450 --> 00:58:11,890
 Purple dog comes in with 3000 sets.

786
00:58:11,890 --> 00:58:14,270
 I've got no interest in video podcasts.

787
00:58:14,270 --> 00:58:17,810
 He says, I only listen at times that my eyes are otherwise engaged.

788
00:58:17,810 --> 00:58:21,090
 As Chris says, driving, mowing the lawn, cleaning the house, walking the dog.

789
00:58:21,090 --> 00:58:24,350
 There's a couple of video podcasts that I only listen to, but it's not great

790
00:58:24,350 --> 00:58:27,670
 because they sometimes assume you can see the video.

791
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:28,850
 Mm hmm.

792
00:58:28,850 --> 00:58:30,270
 Mm hmm.

793
00:58:30,270 --> 00:58:31,550
 That's a dangerous place to be.

794
00:58:31,550 --> 00:58:36,410
 Uh, it's just so uncomfortable as a listener when you're like, Oh, all of a

795
00:58:36,410 --> 00:58:38,010
 sudden I'm not part of this conversation.

796
00:58:38,010 --> 00:58:40,530
 That's what podcasts bring you.

797
00:58:40,530 --> 00:58:43,670
 It's like you feel you're in the room, but that takes it right out of that experience.

798
00:58:43,670 --> 00:58:44,030
 Yeah.

799
00:58:44,810 --> 00:58:50,170
 Dan Johansson rocking out in the mumble room right now with us to send in a row

800
00:58:50,170 --> 00:58:52,370
 of ducks, which I do love the ducks.

801
00:58:52,370 --> 00:58:57,110
 I enjoy my audio podcast while I do chores around the house, walk the dog,

802
00:58:57,110 --> 00:58:58,590
 driving long trips, et cetera.

803
00:58:58,590 --> 00:59:00,410
 None of those can be done with a video podcast.

804
00:59:00,410 --> 00:59:03,950
 I do watch video podcasts on YouTube, but it requires me to be sat in front

805
00:59:03,950 --> 00:59:08,090
 of my screen for between 30 minutes to four hours, depending on the podcast.

806
00:59:08,090 --> 00:59:10,730
 That's a time commitment, especially as a family man.

807
00:59:10,730 --> 00:59:12,230
 Keep up the great work and all the shows.

808
00:59:12,230 --> 00:59:12,970
 Well, thank you, Dan.

809
00:59:12,970 --> 00:59:13,910
 Appreciate you.

810
00:59:14,830 --> 00:59:16,330
 Yeah, I, I agree.

811
00:59:16,330 --> 00:59:22,090
 I like, if I'm working, I've got a couple of screens so I could put a YouTube

812
00:59:22,090 --> 00:59:25,630
 video or whatever up on one of them and I can kind of listen in the background.

813
00:59:25,630 --> 00:59:30,450
 But, uh, man, there are some shows I just never, I never would want to watch

814
00:59:30,450 --> 00:59:31,270
 in video anyways.

815
00:59:31,270 --> 00:59:36,550
 So that's a, it's, I think that's what we're trying to reach with jupiter.tube

816
00:59:36,550 --> 00:59:40,890
 is make it available in video when you feel like we're the show that you want

817
00:59:40,890 --> 00:59:42,950
 to watch at your desk for a period of time or something like that.

818
00:59:43,510 --> 00:59:46,110
 But try to be low key about it.

819
00:59:46,110 --> 00:59:47,710
 You know, try not to care too much.

820
00:59:47,710 --> 00:59:50,650
 Like I'm trying to be cool at the fact that Brent's video keeps freezing.

821
00:59:50,650 --> 00:59:54,790
 Try not to let it bother me because it's not, it doesn't matter to the audio at all.

822
00:59:54,790 --> 00:59:55,630
 So we just go on.

823
00:59:55,630 --> 01:00:00,450
 It doesn't matter, you know, um, it's a minimum viable video product, but we

824
01:00:00,450 --> 01:00:03,310
 want it to be good enough that you can watch it and if it sounds okay and it

825
01:00:03,310 --> 01:00:05,530
 looks okay and you can see what we're talking about and stuff like that.

826
01:00:05,530 --> 01:00:06,450
 All right.

827
01:00:06,450 --> 01:00:11,450
 Rounding out with our last few sets, Mentat boosts in with 512 sets.

828
01:00:11,630 --> 01:00:13,470
 I definitely prefer the audio only podcast.

829
01:00:13,470 --> 01:00:17,390
 I started listening to podcasts and L up about four or five years ago as

830
01:00:17,390 --> 01:00:19,850
 something to keep my brain just sort of busy at night.

831
01:00:19,850 --> 01:00:23,190
 Then it turned into listening during long commutes.

832
01:00:23,190 --> 01:00:25,990
 So I'm glad to hear that podcast addict is adopting the two.

833
01:00:25,990 --> 01:00:26,750
 No standards.

834
01:00:26,750 --> 01:00:29,350
 That was the first app I used before giving antenna pot a try.

835
01:00:29,350 --> 01:00:33,030
 By the way, someone wrote a next cloud app called G Potter sync that uses the

836
01:00:33,030 --> 01:00:37,930
 G Potter API to sync your podcast between devices and Tana pod and cast both

837
01:00:37,930 --> 01:00:38,330
 support it.

838
01:00:38,330 --> 01:00:40,230
 I don't mention that enough.

839
01:00:40,770 --> 01:00:42,370
 But that is 100% of things.

840
01:00:42,370 --> 01:00:45,910
 There is a G Potter app on next cloud and you can point antenna pod at it and

841
01:00:45,910 --> 01:00:47,590
 you can have it as your own back and sync.

842
01:00:47,590 --> 01:00:50,150
 I don't know.

843
01:00:50,150 --> 01:00:51,430
 That might be kind of fun.

844
01:00:51,430 --> 01:00:55,950
 I, uh, I haven't really gotten there yet.

845
01:00:55,950 --> 01:00:57,710
 I'm pretty happy with pod verse though.

846
01:00:57,710 --> 01:01:01,370
 So I, but I could see if you have the, if I had the option, maybe I'd play around

847
01:01:01,370 --> 01:01:01,650
 with that.

848
01:01:01,650 --> 01:01:05,910
 And then, uh, it's really, you know, it's really interesting these days is there's

849
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:09,350
 so many options and a lot of them are really good.

850
01:01:09,510 --> 01:01:12,670
 So it's like, well, just go find something.

851
01:01:12,670 --> 01:01:15,650
 I mean, I, I totally forgot about G Potter, but I used to use it and, uh,

852
01:01:15,650 --> 01:01:17,970
 would have loved this functionality back then.

853
01:01:17,970 --> 01:01:19,850
 I mean, they had G Potter.net.

854
01:01:19,850 --> 01:01:25,410
 I think that was trying to accomplish similar, but, uh, I mean, welcome to the real

855
01:01:25,410 --> 01:01:25,650
 world.

856
01:01:25,650 --> 01:01:28,130
 I think it's great that antenna pod incorporates that API.

857
01:01:28,130 --> 01:01:32,890
 It's also so funny how many things exist as a next cloud app.

858
01:01:32,890 --> 01:01:36,450
 It's like next cloud provided these primitives that all these app makers can

859
01:01:36,450 --> 01:01:37,450
 build on top of.

860
01:01:37,650 --> 01:01:40,750
 So if you don't want to worry about the web server and the web dab and all that,

861
01:01:40,750 --> 01:01:43,910
 you know, like, you don't have to, you just, you get a next cloud app.

862
01:01:43,910 --> 01:01:46,350
 Um, I've got some clap pack for the next cloud.

863
01:01:46,350 --> 01:01:50,910
 There is a snap, which I use and it's been super solid.

864
01:01:50,910 --> 01:01:53,990
 And I used it before I knew anything, but, uh, it's been great.

865
01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:54,430
 I don't know.

866
01:01:54,430 --> 01:01:55,830
 I've never seen one, but maybe there is.

867
01:01:55,830 --> 01:01:56,670
 I don't know.

868
01:01:56,670 --> 01:02:00,610
 Um, mirror mortals podcast boosts in with a row of ducks podcasting two.

869
01:02:00,610 --> 01:02:03,110
 No, no, and value for value took control of my mind.

870
01:02:03,110 --> 01:02:04,630
 Like nothing has before.

871
01:02:05,330 --> 01:02:09,450
 I actually just, I actually just had Oscar from fountain on the mirror mortals pod.

872
01:02:09,450 --> 01:02:13,350
 If anyone would like to hear more, go check out mirror mortals podcast for

873
01:02:13,350 --> 01:02:16,590
 Oscar, one of the co-founders and co-creators of the fountain app.

874
01:02:16,590 --> 01:02:19,190
 And, uh, somebody who thinks a lot about podcasting himself.

875
01:02:19,190 --> 01:02:20,270
 I agree.

876
01:02:20,270 --> 01:02:24,270
 The reason I think why value for value kind of can take control of the mind is

877
01:02:24,270 --> 01:02:28,270
 it's like you become righteous about discovering a truth.

878
01:02:28,270 --> 01:02:32,230
 And that truth can be explained in one simple sentence.

879
01:02:32,230 --> 01:02:35,030
 The audience needs to be your biggest customer.

880
01:02:35,570 --> 01:02:41,410
 And when the audience isn't your biggest customer, well, that changes the incentives.

881
01:02:41,410 --> 01:02:48,010
 And perhaps only slowly, perhaps only a little bit at a time, but cumulative

882
01:02:48,010 --> 01:02:51,690
 over, cumulatively over years, it adds up.

883
01:02:51,690 --> 01:02:54,650
 And, uh, somebody who's been doing this for a long time.

884
01:02:54,650 --> 01:02:57,810
 And I mean, I've been podcasting for God to be going on almost 16 years now.

885
01:02:57,810 --> 01:03:00,490
 And I've been doing sponsorships for 13.

886
01:03:01,030 --> 01:03:07,170
 I've been making a full-time living for like 11 of those 13 years from doing podcasts

887
01:03:07,170 --> 01:03:09,490
 and a big portion of that's been sponsorships.

888
01:03:09,490 --> 01:03:15,690
 And I've had to walk a line that entire time, figuring out where the, where

889
01:03:15,690 --> 01:03:19,250
 things were like crossing a line that the audience wouldn't be comfortable with.

890
01:03:19,250 --> 01:03:22,290
 Because I don't want to ever piss off my biggest customer.

891
01:03:22,290 --> 01:03:23,130
 Right?

892
01:03:23,130 --> 01:03:23,770
 That's just big.

893
01:03:23,770 --> 01:03:24,930
 That's just bad business.

894
01:03:24,930 --> 01:03:28,810
 And, uh, even if you have like super moral strength and all that, like there can be

895
01:03:28,810 --> 01:03:32,310
 hard years, bad times, you, you got to really just build it into the business.

896
01:03:32,310 --> 01:03:36,070
 I think, and I think, you know, having a good character and a good moral fiber, you

897
01:03:36,070 --> 01:03:38,110
 know, pushes you in that direction.

898
01:03:38,110 --> 01:03:42,550
 But ultimately you want to build the business in a way where the focus of the

899
01:03:42,550 --> 01:03:47,710
 business is the listener because that otherwise creates all these mountain

900
01:03:47,710 --> 01:03:49,110
 incentives that I've seen over and over again.

901
01:03:49,110 --> 01:03:53,270
 It's one of the reasons why I went through some of the worst months of my life.

902
01:03:53,270 --> 01:03:57,910
 Buying Jupiter broadcasting back and going independent again is because I

903
01:03:57,910 --> 01:04:02,890
 realized if the focus wasn't the listener, we were going to die.

904
01:04:02,890 --> 01:04:07,010
 Um, it was, that's the short version of say, I, I went through hell and back

905
01:04:07,010 --> 01:04:08,130
 because of this lesson.

906
01:04:08,130 --> 01:04:16,530
 I mean, I learned it to the tune of tens of tens of tens of thousands in lawyer

907
01:04:16,530 --> 01:04:16,930
 bills.

908
01:04:16,930 --> 01:04:21,330
 Uh, I spent enough in lawyer bills alone, not even mentioned the acquisition and

909
01:04:21,330 --> 01:04:21,930
 getting it back.

910
01:04:21,930 --> 01:04:25,330
 I spent enough in lawyer bills that it's probably as much as some folks make in

911
01:04:25,330 --> 01:04:25,610
 a year.

912
01:04:25,930 --> 01:04:29,270
 I mean, it was devastatingly amount of, it was a huge amount of debt that we had

913
01:04:29,270 --> 01:04:32,830
 to get through was a very expensive lesson.

914
01:04:32,830 --> 01:04:38,590
 So take my word, what I say, I know what I'm talking about on this one.

915
01:04:38,590 --> 01:04:40,270
 Um, and I saw mere mortals.

916
01:04:40,270 --> 01:04:42,550
 I agree with you value for value is like a mind virus.

917
01:04:42,550 --> 01:04:44,510
 Once you figure it out, also they follow up.

918
01:04:44,510 --> 01:04:48,350
 Uh, I like to take periodic spurts of listening to the opposite side of an

919
01:04:48,350 --> 01:04:48,790
 argument.

920
01:04:48,790 --> 01:04:54,350
 So Chris, what anti Bitcoin sources do you find noteworthy or compelling?

921
01:04:55,270 --> 01:04:56,170
 Great question.

922
01:04:56,170 --> 01:05:00,050
 I think it's always really good to analyze the best counter arguments you

923
01:05:00,050 --> 01:05:01,050
 can find to anything.

924
01:05:01,050 --> 01:05:04,010
 And, um, I will link you.

925
01:05:04,010 --> 01:05:05,890
 I'll be honest with you.

926
01:05:05,890 --> 01:05:09,610
 This is something that I and the Bitcoin dad, we do very actively.

927
01:05:09,610 --> 01:05:13,650
 We're always trying to send each other critical analysis, trying to look at it

928
01:05:13,650 --> 01:05:14,450
 from their perspective.

929
01:05:14,450 --> 01:05:22,850
 And, um, generally, I really don't find criticism that stands up to, um, the

930
01:05:22,850 --> 01:05:27,070
 technical, you know, or maybe like the monetary properties or whatever.

931
01:05:27,070 --> 01:05:27,990
 Like here's an example.

932
01:05:27,990 --> 01:05:29,430
 I'll give you a concrete example.

933
01:05:29,430 --> 01:05:30,890
 Jamie Diamond.

934
01:05:30,890 --> 01:05:34,450
 The guy runs JP Morgan, right?

935
01:05:34,450 --> 01:05:37,550
 I mean, his name sounds like money.

936
01:05:37,550 --> 01:05:41,870
 Jamie Diamond thinks Bitcoin is a scam.

937
01:05:41,870 --> 01:05:43,430
 He fluctuates on this.

938
01:05:43,430 --> 01:05:46,610
 Of course, his company offers Bitcoin services, but he thinks it's a scam

939
01:05:46,610 --> 01:05:50,130
 because it won't really stay 21 million.

940
01:05:50,130 --> 01:05:52,470
 He says, quote, how do you know it's going to stop at 21 million?

941
01:05:53,150 --> 01:05:54,690
 This is on CNBC's Squawk box.

942
01:05:54,690 --> 01:05:58,470
 He says, maybe it's going to get to 21 million and Satoshi's picture is going

943
01:05:58,470 --> 01:05:59,670
 to come up and laugh at you all.

944
01:05:59,670 --> 01:06:00,910
 Ha, ha, ha, ha.

945
01:06:00,910 --> 01:06:08,110
 And, um, these, these are kind of the arguments that kind of sound legitimate

946
01:06:08,110 --> 01:06:08,590
 in a way.

947
01:06:08,590 --> 01:06:10,930
 Like, well, yeah, I mean, it's just source code.

948
01:06:10,930 --> 01:06:16,050
 Couldn't they just patch the source code and put in 50 million Bitcoin?

949
01:06:16,050 --> 01:06:18,490
 Like, what would prevent that from happening?

950
01:06:18,490 --> 01:06:19,630
 Yeah, it is a scam.

951
01:06:19,630 --> 01:06:20,370
 Oh man.

952
01:06:20,370 --> 01:06:21,510
 All these fools.

953
01:06:21,950 --> 01:06:25,530
 You know, it's really easy to go down that, that rabbit hole, but the reality is

954
01:06:25,530 --> 01:06:30,330
 when you understand how Bitcoin is designed, you realize there's not a single line

955
01:06:30,330 --> 01:06:33,010
 of code that says 21 million Bitcoin.

956
01:06:33,010 --> 01:06:36,070
 There's no like hard cap line of code.

957
01:06:36,070 --> 01:06:37,130
 That's not how it works.

958
01:06:37,130 --> 01:06:41,510
 It's the issuance schedule based on the difficulty to mine, which is always adjusting

959
01:06:41,510 --> 01:06:45,590
 based on how long it takes to mine a block, which is roughly nine minutes.

960
01:06:45,590 --> 01:06:50,050
 And if it, if blocks start getting mined faster than nine minutes, the difficulty

961
01:06:50,050 --> 01:06:54,430
 goes up and if they're taking longer than nine minutes, the difficulty goes down

962
01:06:54,430 --> 01:06:55,550
 and it adjusts that way.

963
01:06:55,550 --> 01:06:59,430
 And based on that difficulty and the issuance schedule of the blocks, there

964
01:06:59,430 --> 01:07:01,930
 will be 21 million and we have roughly the idea of the date.

965
01:07:01,930 --> 01:07:03,790
 But you might say Chris, somebody could change that.

966
01:07:03,790 --> 01:07:04,590
 Okay.

967
01:07:04,590 --> 01:07:10,330
 Well, for that to get changed, you have to also then get every miner that mines

968
01:07:10,330 --> 01:07:14,890
 Bitcoin to agree and accept that patch and merge.

969
01:07:14,890 --> 01:07:17,290
 You have to get every node.

970
01:07:17,410 --> 01:07:21,450
 Like I have a node, Brent has a node, many of you listening have nodes,

971
01:07:21,450 --> 01:07:24,550
 tens and tens of thousands of nodes out there.

972
01:07:24,550 --> 01:07:29,550
 30,000 nodes, 50,000 nodes, I don't know, thousands of them.

973
01:07:29,550 --> 01:07:34,290
 Every single one of those nodes who has a different set of incentives than the

974
01:07:34,290 --> 01:07:37,950
 miners, who has a different set of incentives than the developers also has

975
01:07:37,950 --> 01:07:38,790
 to accept the change.

976
01:07:38,790 --> 01:07:42,530
 The developers, all the developers, because there is no central developer.

977
01:07:42,530 --> 01:07:45,690
 So all the developers of Bitcoin have to accept the change through a Bitcoin

978
01:07:45,690 --> 01:07:47,690
 improvement proposal a bit.

979
01:07:47,690 --> 01:07:53,090
 Once that was accepted by the core team, they could apply the patch.

980
01:07:53,090 --> 01:07:55,730
 That would be called a hard fork.

981
01:07:55,730 --> 01:07:58,430
 We've had this happen a thousand times in Bitcoin.

982
01:07:58,430 --> 01:08:04,950
 Every other layer from the miners to the node operators to the end users would

983
01:08:04,950 --> 01:08:06,370
 have to accept that patch.

984
01:08:06,370 --> 01:08:09,670
 They would have to install that new version and run it.

985
01:08:09,670 --> 01:08:13,730
 This has happened many times, but the most famous time this has happened, and

986
01:08:13,730 --> 01:08:17,970
 it's a fantastic book, it's not a long read, is the block size wars.

987
01:08:17,970 --> 01:08:20,090
 And it's on Amazon, it's cheap, the block size wars.

988
01:08:20,090 --> 01:08:25,170
 And it talks about a time when Bitcoin was young, when a core group of

989
01:08:25,170 --> 01:08:28,970
 influential people who were close to Satoshi at the time, when after Satoshi

990
01:08:28,970 --> 01:08:34,250
 had left, tried to take over Bitcoin and change some fundamentals about it.

991
01:08:34,250 --> 01:08:36,050
 And they did a hell of a campaign.

992
01:08:36,050 --> 01:08:38,010
 They've really, really, really tried.

993
01:08:38,010 --> 01:08:43,010
 And it was a lot smaller of a project back then, with a lot smaller footprint.

994
01:08:43,010 --> 01:08:44,130
 So it was way more approachable.

995
01:08:44,130 --> 01:08:48,770
 But ultimately, the nodes refused to accept the change.

996
01:08:48,770 --> 01:08:52,170
 And it created a fork.

997
01:08:52,170 --> 01:08:55,410
 Now there's like a, you know, another one of these crazy cryptos out there that

998
01:08:55,410 --> 01:08:57,770
 took those changes, but Bitcoin continued on.

999
01:08:57,770 --> 01:09:03,170
 The Bitcoin protocol is the same it was on pizza day, the day that guy spent

1000
01:09:03,170 --> 01:09:05,970
 all those Bitcoin on pizzas 10, 12 years ago.

1001
01:09:05,970 --> 01:09:08,570
 It has remained the same because of this.

1002
01:09:08,570 --> 01:09:09,930
 Small improvements work out.

1003
01:09:09,930 --> 01:09:11,610
 We cover those in the Bitcoin debt all the time.

1004
01:09:12,810 --> 01:09:15,690
 And those are called soft forks and people can opt to take those and

1005
01:09:15,690 --> 01:09:16,970
 sometimes they're turned off by default.

1006
01:09:16,970 --> 01:09:22,450
 But it's a very, very sophisticated way that new changes work their way out.

1007
01:09:22,450 --> 01:09:24,890
 And it creates kind of a slow moving project.

1008
01:09:24,890 --> 01:09:29,810
 It, Bitcoin is the slowest moving project in terms of development of all of them.

1009
01:09:29,810 --> 01:09:31,330
 But it does also the most reliable.

1010
01:09:31,330 --> 01:09:35,690
 It has over a decade of uptime, you know, if people have tried this 10,000 times

1011
01:09:35,690 --> 01:09:37,490
 and nobody's been able to successfully co-opt it.

1012
01:09:37,490 --> 01:09:41,890
 But when you hear people like Jamie Dimon, who runs JPMorgan, who must know

1013
01:09:41,890 --> 01:09:44,770
 about money, he says, well, yeah, they could just make, they could just change

1014
01:09:44,770 --> 01:09:47,970
 the limit. Those types of arguments seem compelling.

1015
01:09:47,970 --> 01:09:50,130
 So it seems like there's all these great criticisms out there.

1016
01:09:50,130 --> 01:09:53,210
 But when you understand how it's architected, none of these stand up.

1017
01:09:53,210 --> 01:09:59,110
 Uh, but, but there was a really great thread, one of the best threads I've

1018
01:09:59,110 --> 01:10:04,290
 seen in a long time, uh, uh, uh, a thread that had a bounty to come up

1019
01:10:04,290 --> 01:10:08,050
 with the best counter takedown of Bitcoin out there.

1020
01:10:08,610 --> 01:10:11,970
 And, uh, the person who did was awarded a thousand sets.

1021
01:10:11,970 --> 01:10:16,050
 Stacker news is kind of like Reddit, but upvotes are sats.

1022
01:10:16,050 --> 01:10:19,770
 And so, you know, you got to spend a set to upvote and downvote.

1023
01:10:19,770 --> 01:10:22,450
 So the signal turns out to be really good because, you know, there's a

1024
01:10:22,450 --> 01:10:24,770
 little bit of money on the line and comments can get sats too.

1025
01:10:24,770 --> 01:10:27,130
 So people are incentivized to write good comments.

1026
01:10:27,130 --> 01:10:27,690
 It's interesting.

1027
01:10:27,690 --> 01:10:29,130
 Stacker news, stacker.news.

1028
01:10:29,130 --> 01:10:37,290
 And this thread, which has got hunt us 80 80 replies, uh, kind of tries to

1029
01:10:37,290 --> 01:10:40,110
 come up with the absolute best arguments against Bitcoin that the

1030
01:10:40,110 --> 01:10:41,370
 Bitcoin community can think of.

1031
01:10:41,370 --> 01:10:44,430
 And I would say these, the best ones are in there and they really just

1032
01:10:44,430 --> 01:10:45,490
 kind of come down to adoption.

1033
01:10:45,490 --> 01:10:50,810
 And essentially, if it's too hard for the average Joe to use it or, uh, you

1034
01:10:50,810 --> 01:10:54,930
 know, it becomes, I don't know, maybe we get really good policy.

1035
01:10:54,930 --> 01:10:59,270
 Maybe we get really good fiscal policy and the CBDCs are great and they give

1036
01:10:59,270 --> 01:11:02,030
 you privacy and they can't be taken or seized from you.

1037
01:11:02,030 --> 01:11:05,250
 They can't be shut off and they're mathematically provable and verifiable.

1038
01:11:05,250 --> 01:11:06,570
 And every one of them is accountable.

1039
01:11:07,350 --> 01:11:10,530
 Um, and they're a scarce asset that increases in value and doesn't

1040
01:11:10,530 --> 01:11:12,190
 inflate because it can be printed to infinity.

1041
01:11:12,190 --> 01:11:18,990
 If, if policy were to get better in the West, not just in the U S, but in

1042
01:11:18,990 --> 01:11:22,930
 all of the West, if better fiscal policy and better political policy came along,

1043
01:11:22,930 --> 01:11:25,290
 that could prevent the adoption of Bitcoin.

1044
01:11:25,290 --> 01:11:31,170
 Um, if just the overall, like, you know, I don't know, maybe like the

1045
01:11:31,170 --> 01:11:33,370
 boil the ocean narrative or something were to scare people away.

1046
01:11:33,370 --> 01:11:35,310
 Maybe that could stop it.

1047
01:11:35,310 --> 01:11:37,810
 Those are the best arguments I've seen because there's really not a great

1048
01:11:37,810 --> 01:11:42,590
 technical or a great monetary argument, but you can read a few good ones in

1049
01:11:42,590 --> 01:11:42,930
 that thread.

1050
01:11:42,930 --> 01:11:43,850
 I'll link it in the show notes.

1051
01:11:43,850 --> 01:11:44,790
 Great question.

1052
01:11:44,790 --> 01:11:45,210
 Mirmotals.

1053
01:11:45,210 --> 01:11:45,570
 Thank you.

1054
01:11:45,570 --> 01:11:48,050
 Sorry, I went on for so long, but I just found that fascinating.

1055
01:11:48,050 --> 01:11:53,670
 And our very last boost came from Rustic Casta Versa, a row of sticks for the

1056
01:11:53,670 --> 01:11:54,570
 OBS machine.

1057
01:11:54,570 --> 01:11:56,130
 Thank you, sir.

1058
01:11:56,130 --> 01:11:57,130
 Thank you, sir.

1059
01:11:57,130 --> 01:11:59,430
 It is much appreciated.

1060
01:11:59,430 --> 01:12:00,990
 How you feeling, Bradley?

1061
01:12:00,990 --> 01:12:02,650
 You still got enough energy to do one more show.

1062
01:12:03,790 --> 01:12:06,370
 I think with a little food break, I'm up for anything.

1063
01:12:06,370 --> 01:12:07,630
 That's always your answer.

1064
01:12:07,630 --> 01:12:09,670
 Isn't it?

1065
01:12:09,670 --> 01:12:10,870
 Yeah, it always is.

1066
01:12:10,870 --> 01:12:11,530
 It always is.

1067
01:12:11,530 --> 01:12:13,150
 Food is the source of life.

1068
01:12:13,150 --> 01:12:13,630
 Come on.

1069
01:12:13,630 --> 01:12:17,570
 I think my plan is just to keep the Jupiter test signal fee going for like

1070
01:12:17,570 --> 01:12:18,730
 another episode or so.

1071
01:12:18,730 --> 01:12:22,770
 So if you go subscribe to it after this week's show, when we do another show in

1072
01:12:22,770 --> 01:12:25,850
 two weeks, you should see it show up live in your pod versus client or whatever.

1073
01:12:25,850 --> 01:12:27,030
 And I don't know.

1074
01:12:27,030 --> 01:12:31,310
 Then we'll probably scrap it and take the lessons we've learned and build our own

1075
01:12:31,310 --> 01:12:31,510
 thing.

1076
01:12:32,270 --> 01:12:35,310
 Well, I'm curious, Chris, what are you hoping to learn with it in the next week?

1077
01:12:35,310 --> 01:12:38,670
 I mean, you've learned a ton about implementing it, but I wonder about,

1078
01:12:38,670 --> 01:12:42,950
 uh, will you try a few new things or what's on the docket for you around this?

1079
01:12:42,950 --> 01:12:47,750
 Well, I'm really looking forward to completing the whole live cycle, right?

1080
01:12:47,750 --> 01:12:50,570
 Cause now I have to take us off air and that's an RSS feed update.

1081
01:12:50,570 --> 01:12:55,330
 And I got to go through that whole process and I've never published a new show with it.

1082
01:12:55,330 --> 01:12:59,970
 I published, uh, I republished last week's episode into the feed, but I

1083
01:12:59,970 --> 01:13:03,650
 haven't published a new episode and I haven't gone through that process yet.

1084
01:13:03,650 --> 01:13:07,810
 I'm not sure how I'm going to do that either, but I'm looking forward to it.

1085
01:13:07,810 --> 01:13:11,170
 Like that would have figured all out, you know, exciting.

1086
01:13:11,170 --> 01:13:12,810
 Yes.

1087
01:13:12,810 --> 01:13:13,810
 It is really fun.

1088
01:13:13,810 --> 01:13:19,150
 It's, I think the most exciting that podcasting has been for me in many, many

1089
01:13:19,150 --> 01:13:23,210
 years, very grateful for Adam and Dave and everybody that's working on these

1090
01:13:23,210 --> 01:13:27,610
 apps and everybody that's working on the backend services, like podping and podping

1091
01:13:27,610 --> 01:13:28,670
 and watch and all that stuff.

1092
01:13:28,670 --> 01:13:33,970
 It's like just a really awesome community that's all working together on

1093
01:13:33,970 --> 01:13:36,870
 these individual components and the shit actually works.

1094
01:13:36,870 --> 01:13:41,530
 You know, it's got a few rough edges, but it actually works.

1095
01:13:41,530 --> 01:13:43,390
 Some very talented people working.

1096
01:13:43,390 --> 01:13:45,250
 So awesome.

1097
01:13:45,250 --> 01:13:46,170
 It's so great to see it.

1098
01:13:46,170 --> 01:13:47,290
 I thank you.

1099
01:13:47,290 --> 01:13:50,070
 Everybody who boosted in, of course, everybody who streamed sets or maybe sent

1100
01:13:50,070 --> 01:13:54,110
 a boost without a message or maybe it was really low amount and make it in, but

1101
01:13:54,110 --> 01:13:54,970
 we read all of them.

1102
01:13:54,970 --> 01:13:57,130
 Appreciate everybody who streams and boost in.

1103
01:13:57,450 --> 01:13:58,410
 And supports the show.

1104
01:13:58,410 --> 01:14:01,130
 You can get an ad free version of the office hours.

1105
01:14:01,130 --> 01:14:03,810
 We're going to actually start spinning this up just by becoming a Jupiter

1106
01:14:03,810 --> 01:14:04,310
 party member.

1107
01:14:04,310 --> 01:14:08,330
 If you do want to do the Fiat fun coupons membership, then you get the ad free

1108
01:14:08,330 --> 01:14:09,170
 version of the SIGs.

1109
01:14:09,170 --> 01:14:11,050
 That's going to be exciting.

1110
01:14:11,050 --> 01:14:12,610
 I think that's it though, Brett.

1111
01:14:12,610 --> 01:14:13,530
 I think we're all done.

1112
01:14:13,530 --> 01:14:16,410
 I think it's time to go pop some popcorn and kick everybody out of here.

1113
01:14:16,410 --> 01:14:17,450
 Yeah.

1114
01:14:17,450 --> 01:14:19,970
 No, you got to stick around.

1115
01:14:19,970 --> 01:14:20,690
 We got another show to do.

1116
01:14:20,690 --> 01:14:22,210
 Don't worry.

1117
01:14:22,210 --> 01:14:23,570
 I brought you some oatmeal.

1118
01:14:23,570 --> 01:14:24,530
 Thanks.

1119
01:14:24,530 --> 01:14:25,530
 All right, everybody.

1120
01:14:25,530 --> 01:14:26,370
 Thanks for joining us.

1121
01:14:27,330 --> 01:14:28,330
 See you next time.

1122
01:14:28,330 --> 01:14:29,330
 On the left side.

1123
01:14:29,330 --> 01:14:39,330
 [BLANK_AUDIO]